Russian P-47 Thuds

The other hundred:

42-25539/25638 Republic P-47D-22-RE Thunderbolt (100) to USSR. Obviously not all of them got there; six a/c out of this batch are reported lost with USAAF units (MACRs)…..

Martin

“Knights of Pythias” it is

Martin

1: 42-75202 – P-47D-10-RE; This plane was bought with money of American senators. It had personal name ‘Knight of Pythias’. It was tested in Middle of 1944 in NII VVS and LII.

Martin,

just to set my mind straight. “Knights of Pythias” or “Knights of Paris” as quoted by BlackWolf in a Warpaint book?

Incidentally, the Knights of Pythias still exist and have their own website!

Rob / Kansan

1: 42-75202 – P-47D-10-RE; This plane was bought with money of American senators. It had personal name ‘Knight of Pythias’. It was tested in Middle of 1944 in NII VVS and LII.

2: P-47D-22-RE; Unit: 255th IAP, Northern Fleet (nothing further known)

3: P-47D-27-RE; Unit: 255th IAP, Northern Fleet (nothing further known)

4: 42-27023; P-47D-27-RE; Unit: 255th IAP, Northern Fleet (nothing further known)

Impressive………….thanks for the information. 😀

1: 42-75202 – P-47D-10-RE; This plane was bought with money of American senators. It had personal name ‘Knight of Pythias’. It was tested in Middle of 1944 in NII VVS and LII.

2: P-47D-22-RE; Unit: 255th IAP, Northern Fleet (nothing further known)

3: P-47D-27-RE; Unit: 255th IAP, Northern Fleet (nothing further known)

4: 42-27023; P-47D-27-RE; Unit: 255th IAP, Northern Fleet (nothing further known)

How many models did Russia get? I had seen picture of early P-47B and/or C’s. I didn’t know that they also received later P-47D’s. 😀

officially 203 D-models – for earlier variants I have to check

the first 103 D’s (as per Baugher’s site) are….

42-27015/27064 to USSR under Lend-Lease (50)
42-27115/27164 to USSR under Lend-Lease (50)
42-75201/75203 to USSR under Lend-Lease (3)

the other 100 I will search for

other sources only state 195 a/c delivered – maybe the difference is those a/c that were lost in transit…

Martin

Right – the “Multinational Bolts” photo is the one I have

as for the DF-loop: I have many photos of P-47’s turned over to the Chinese Nationalist Air Force in 1945 -> they all are ‘adorned’ with similar DF-loops; also most of the P-51’s and P-38’s (incl. their recon-versions) operating in the CBI had such modifications.

Martin

The presentation inscription reads ‘Sovereign Senators’. According to Warpaint Special #1, ‘K of P’ stands for ‘Knights of Paris’. I dunno fersher whether it’s ‘Pythias’ or ‘Paris’, but the former seems more likely to me. Anyhoo, this was one of nine such ‘K of P’ Thunderbolts, again according to the Warpaint rag.

Kansan, the DF loop was present on USAAF P-47s in the CBI. Whether all CBI Bolts had them or not, I couldn’t say.

Fade to Black…

Hey BW,

I sit corrected. I see no reason to doubt Warpaint, which I don’t have. Knights of Paris, huh? Time to hit the Masonic reference books again. 😀

Thanks for the tip on CBI P-47s. I never thought of that, but knew the VVS used to stick ’em on almost all their stuff. Aligned along the fuselage and not able to be turned, allegedly.

R/K

How many models did Russia get? I had seen picture of early P-47B and/or C’s. I didn’t know that they also received later P-47D’s. 😀

Hi Martin,

Do you know what Russian Naval Units used the Thuds.

Thanks
RER

… … …

Martin,

Like you say, it’s an interesting topic.

I think the picture of the “Knights of Pythias” P-47 really is an example in use by the VVS because of the extra DF Loop on the razorback/spine/topdecking/whatever you call it. I remember reading something about other VVS aircraft (Mk IX Spitfire comes to mind) with a fixed DF loop added later. I don’t see this loop on other contemporary american pix of P-47s after a very brief scan.

Also – is the serial number (or lack of serial number) visible on the original (or next generation up) print/illustration?

Rob / Kansan

Rob

this will need some more research but from my experience / knowledge on aircraft supplied to Russia, this most probably was a new aircraft.

It was common to have “representation aircraft” bought through war bonds given special coverage, and by sending such aircraft to (then) brothers in arms was considered as an effective propaganda. I also have photos of representation P-39’s & P-40’s sent to Russia.

Speaking of propaganda: There exist photographs from Republic (and also other manufacturers such as North American Aviation), where aircraft with many different nationality markings share the ramp at the production facilities. In many cases these marking were applied for propaganda purposes only and the aircraft never saw service with the Air Force they ‘represented’ – Those marking, however, often varied from the “right stuff”. I will scan/post such a photo of P-47’s tonight (with a Russian P-47, too).

In general the history of represenation aircraft is a fascinating topic and sure needs more research.

Cordially
Martin

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=95985

Martin,

Have you by chance got an explanation for the presentation inscription on that P-47? From where I’m sitting “K of P” is the “Knights of Pythias” – a Masonic organisation. Is/was this a “pre-owned” P-47 being shuffled off to the USSR or was it a new one at the time?

Rob / Kansan

Hi Martin,

Thanks I should have guess you would have a pic some where in your collection 😀

I wonder if any were lost and re waiting to be recovered 🙂

Cheers
RER

Not likely, unfortunately. In the second half of the 1950s there was a political order to retrieve as much aluminium as possible from aircraft yards for the next five-year plan in order to build rockets. This scrapping campaign basically destroyed all post-WW2 reserve stocks. This didn’t just include the Soviet post-ww2 reserve stock (prop aircraft like La-7/9/11 and Il-10, but also early jet stuff including Il-28s, Yak-17/23, MiG-9), but most likely also what remained of the Lend Lease aircraft.

Ok Another Question does anyone know if there were any Russian Ace that flew P-47s

RER

Hi Martin,

Thanks I should have guess you would have a pic some where in your collection 😀

I wonder if any were lost and re waiting to be recovered 🙂

Cheers
RER

I’ve just had a look at the blurb for the P47 in the game “IL2 Forgotten Battles”,and it has this to say about Soviet use of the P47…

“Some 199 or 200 P47’s (D-10 & D-27) were sent to USSR under Lend Lease. After evaluation of the first aircraft (D-10’s),it was decided to use the type in the high altitude air defence role,particularly of big cities like Moscow and Leningrad.
They were also used by Baltic and Northern Fleet Naval Aviation as recon aircraft and fast,low-level bombers,primarily due to thier great range compared to Soviet aircraft. In Soviet service the P47 saw limited action,and then only in Naval service.”

…

and a USAF variant of “Russian” P-47’s

Martin