By: HP111 - 11th August 2015 at 22:04
PS – I though the OP meant aircraft with the political intrigue and controversy surrounding the TSR2 rather than just a look-alike ??
Yes I saw that but perhaps “political intrigue and controversy surrounding the TSR2” is over-playing the matter. I was taking a slightly broader view where a similar project was also cancelled as not worth proceeding with.
By: wizardofthenorth - 11th August 2015 at 20:36
Wait…what??? I thought I heard ‘Arrow’ over here somewhere…let me tell you…..Canada shoulda……..damn Yanks…….best fighter ever…..stoopid Bomark….
Another candidate might be the Avro Arrow (dons steel helmet and ducks)
By: WP840 - 11th August 2015 at 20:02
All it needs is chintz curtains and an Aspidistra…..
Seriously though, it looks more sleek with the nose retracted – but no forward view other than periscopes.
Re the T6-1 – the forerunner of the swing wing Su-24 Fencer – with lift jets and a fixed wing – complete with downturned wingtips just like the TSR2
More T4……
Ken
PS – I though the OP meant aircraft with the political intrigue and controversy surrounding the TSR2 rather than just a look-alike ??
Another candidate might be the Avro Arrow (dons steel helmet and ducks)
Yes, I did! 🙂
By: WH904 - 11th August 2015 at 16:59
but suddenly found itself on the scrapheap with minimal explanation?
A very full explanation is available – suggest you take a look at our Aeroplane Icons publication on the subject 🙂
By: Graham Boak - 11th August 2015 at 16:05
I arrived in the industry too late for TSR2, but despite considerable exposure at Warton and elsewhere to the “cancelled masterpiece” line I had doubts because of the lack of similar designs elsewhere. Successful configurations are copied – sorry, repeated elsewhere. Or perhaps nearer the truth of the matter, other people come up much with the same answers to much the same questions. TSR 2 with its small fixed wing wasn’t the right answer for the time, which is fairly clearly demonstrated by the Russians flying the only closely-similar configuration and deciding that it was the wrong one for the job. F-111, Su 24 and Tornado were right.
The big-winged Arrow has little in common – the Vigilante was more the period’s trend-setter (the original design had twin fins) although its huge wing for carrier operations ruled out its value in low-level strike, which was the British interest.
I’m sorry that this is also at a skew to the original intention of the thread, but I suggest that for that we could perhaps look at the Russian super-fighters of the 1980/90 period for similar extravagantly cutting-edge ideas at a time of economic collapse. But the closed nature of the society prevented open discussion or any political capital being made of it.
By: HP111 - 11th August 2015 at 13:13
An aspect of the TSR2 that doesn’t get much of an airing is just how well would it have performed in service. There was an attitude in the industry towards the TSR2 that was rather ho-hum. Would it have been any good, was it worthwhile etc. Even Flight International criticised it as rather expensive for its purpose and merely catching up with american types.
By: Flanker_man - 11th August 2015 at 12:58
Love the cockpit Dormer window…
All it needs is chintz curtains and an Aspidistra…..
Seriously though, it looks more sleek with the nose retracted – but no forward view other than periscopes.
Re the T6-1 – the forerunner of the swing wing Su-24 Fencer – with lift jets and a fixed wing – complete with downturned wingtips just like the TSR2
More T4……
Ken
PS – I though the OP meant aircraft with the political intrigue and controversy surrounding the TSR2 rather than just a look-alike ??
Another candidate might be the Avro Arrow (dons steel helmet and ducks)
By: roberto_yeager - 11th August 2015 at 12:51
Has there ever been a Russian aircraft story on a par with the British TSR2 story?
By this I mean an aircraft design that was held in high regard, looked good, was good on paper but suddenly found itself on the scrapheap with minimal explanation?
What about te Sukhoi T.6?
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1Saludo
By: Bob - 11th August 2015 at 12:34
Love the cockpit Dormer window…
By: eye4wings - 11th August 2015 at 12:28
AHA! I was wondering how the USA could be involved in the story. Somewhat less political chicanery in this instance than we have come to expect though.
By: HP111 - 11th August 2015 at 10:12
The Osprey Encyclopedia of Russian Aircraft (excellent book) gives an account of the T-4. Envisaged as an interceptor to counter to the B-70, many people said it could not be done, but hugh technical challenges were overcome and the aircraft flew. With the abandonment of the B-70, there was no longer a need for the T-4. A closer analogy to the TSR-2 might be the T6-1, designed to similar requirements to the TSR-2, but which also did not enter service.
By: Creaking Door - 11th August 2015 at 01:13
It lacks a certain elegance compared to that tin shed behind it! 🙂
By: Meddle - 10th August 2015 at 23:04
An attack Concordski. :eagerness:
Lacks a certain elegance compared to the TSR2.
By: Flanker_man - 10th August 2015 at 22:58
Sukhoi T4 ‘Sotka’….. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_T-4
There is lots of political intrigue surrounding the Sukhoi T4.
Reading some translated Russian stuff, it appears that the T4 was used as a stalking horse to reign in Andrei Tupolev – who was considered by some in the Politburo to be getting too big for his boots.
When the spec was defined, Tupolev said it couldn’t be done….
A number of doubts about the feasability of the project were voiced. A.N. Tupolev said “Sukhoi is unable to cope with this machine. I am able to emphasise this because he was my pupil’.
Pavel Osipovich (Sukhoi) replied: “Exactly. Because I was your pupil, I will cope with this”.
It was built, achieved some of its design goals – but was then cancelled.
Ken
PS – It was nicknamed ‘Sotka’ (The 100) – because it weighed 100tonnes…..
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August 10, 2015 at 9:22 pm