Ryanair holds a gun at Boeing's head.

Only because he knows Airbus will show him the door 😀

I am not so sure about it.. John Leahy can make the deal and lose huge amount of money in the process and ask French and German governments to make up the difference . This is how AIRBUS became AIRBUS …That’s something Boeing can’ t do.

I remember the ‘lifter flights as well, along with the USAFE C-47s and masterpieces like the C-54 91998 and C-117s such as 17171 and 17191 etc etc etc

*sighs*

I don’t know what the official position is but PIK seems to get visited by USAF C-130s on an almost daily basis these days. The C-23s and RC-12s transiting to and from the CONUS come through here as well.

I wonder what this says about the future of Mildenhall.

The only reason Prestwick survived was that, as a white elephant airport in an area that provided very little traffic if any, the government designated it as the gateway airport to scotland knowing full well that carriers would rather fly to Edinburgh or Glasgow. A bit like how the Irish government protected shannon by making all in bound and outbound transatlantic flights to Dublin route through there.

After the end of WW2 there was in reality very little need for Prestwick apart from supporting the US Navy on the Holy Loch. In recent years Ryanair came along and even more recently the USAF effectively moved their transport operations back in again.

I was interested in seeing this quote about the USAF moving their transport ops back into Prestwick I used to visit Prestwick in the 80s and 90s and see the MAC flights arriving and leaving, is the current USAF usage due to the Afghanistan war?

Not really comparable with music or photography in some ways

I wasn’t directly comparing them, more highlighting the fact that knowledge isn’t directly proportional to age.

Anyway, yes, enough said. Time to agree to disagree, or agree, or whatever it is we’re actually doing! 🙂

Paul

Paul………..I don’t intend to prolong this……I’ve no disagreement with ANYTHING you say in this last post,indeed,I was only thinking the same myself.A guy who posts on this forum and is substantially younger than me is obviously fairly senior in management at STN and I wouldn’t dream of questioning his expertise.It’s not about age…no-one who has met me would see me as arrogant and certainly not ageist but I do think there’s a history to UK aviation which those who haven’t lived thro’ it don’t always understand and,therefore end up cheering the wrong side…IMHO!!I accept also you are one of the exceptions!
Not really comparable with music or photography in some ways…..I regard myself as a real amateur at the latter even though it’s my hobby.I only want a record for my own use and a 10 year old could probably show me tricks.As for music I can’t play or hum a note and my tastes are seen as juvenile for my age,though you might rate Snow Patrol!!!!!

Enough said I feel

Cheers

B

but if you’re seriously suggesting a 19 year old check-in clerk or a baggage handler with a few years at an airport (NB must stress these are NOT specifics) knows more than someone who has followed the industry for 54 years,and has friends and family in it,then I’m never going to agree.

It isn’t all about age, Barry. I’m 28; I’m relatively young but in my job (as a live sound engineer and musician) I have far more knowledge and ability than many professional people in their 60’s who’ve been at it 30 years longer than me. Conversely, there are musicians who are 15/16 years old and are relative beginners and they absolutely wipe the floor with me. Photography’s no different. Why do I get infinitely better results after 4 years of serious shooting than most people with 40 years experience? Why do I see images on Flickr taken by 14 year old kids using camera phones that make my jaw hit the floor and leave me staring at the screen in awe, wishing I could produce something even half as beautiful and inspiring as they do?

Talking about the aviation industry, I know a few people younger than me working in it who are immensely knowledgable in many aspects of the business (there are plenty of F/O’s and even captains of A320’s/737’s who are in their 20’s). I’m genuinely not trying to question your knowledge and there’s no doubt you know more than me in many respects, but to snub someones’ opinion simply because of their age shows nothing but immense arrogance in my humble opinion.

Paul

The one thing we have now, which Black Kettle alluded to, is choice. I too am old enough to remember cartels by the flag carriers where you had perhaps a choice of two flag carriers but shared revenue. No price or service competition and no growth. Any international flights had to go through the major centres unless you were on a package (IT) flight. What the LCCs have done is provide alternatives in destinations, service and price.

If you don’t like Ryanair then you have a choice. There are many people that do and are willing to pay their pricing structures.

Although I argue for Ryanair I would still prefer to drive for a week away in Europe. It’s only the day trips and travelling over about 1500 miles that would necessitate flying and then I want it cheap as chips. Not interested in service, just get me there!

Hi Symon

Again,we’ll have to agree to differ.I’m sure there are plenty in the airline industry who are far more expert than me and I know of some on this forum but if you’re seriously suggesting a 19 year old check-in clerk or a baggage handler with a few years at an airport (NB must stress these are NOT specifics) knows more than someone who has followed the industry for 54 years,and has friends and family in it,then I’m never going to agree.
I think it’s this assertion that someone IN ANY JOB for just a short time is more expert than onlookers that is giving me the problem especially as after 40 years in total in insurance,I’m certainly not objecting to others expressing a view on what was MY area of expertise!!!

B

BTW….I feel Insurance is EXACTLY comparable.It’s another product where the public want cheap,cheap,cheap with little regard to quality and where the traditional providers were squeezed out by budget ones.I should know….I lost a very senior position as a result but I don’t spend my time praying for the demise of the “victors”!!

I trust you mean ‘service quality’ and not ‘aircraft quality’? The latter being very important and one a lot of people surely consider high on the list when choosing a carrier, despite price.

Also, with regard to the comment about LOCO’s squeezing out ‘tradionals’ – you should have added “some traditional provider” as there are certainly a lot of those doing great, despite LOCO’s (even if I did read today that Ryanair is poised to take over BA in passengers carried UK domestically per month).

And I have to agree with Paul on the ‘knowledge’ front – people ‘in’ the industry (any industry) do definitely gain extra knowledge in some areas along the way.

Paul……sorry you think I’m patronising you ‘cos I’m certainly not…..I have a lot of respect for your contributions.My problem is,at my age,I’ve seen the build up to where we are now with the budget carriers after years of any airline daring to compete with the big boys having to scratch around for the crumbs.
I spend five hours every day (seriously) following airline/airport news and I regard myself as knowing my history (including knowing the background to PIK just posted).
My two analogies,to which you refer,were simply meant as illustrations as to where I regard people with an involvement as the worst people to express an opinion.
BTW….I feel Insurance is EXACTLY comparable.It’s another product where the public want cheap,cheap,cheap with little regard to quality and where the traditional providers were squeezed out by budget ones.I should know….I lost a very senior position as a result but I don’t spend my time praying for the demise of the “victors”!!

Regards

Barry

A bit like how the Irish government protected shannon by making all in bound and outbound transatlantic flights to Dublin route through there.

I’ve often wondered why that ostensibly stupid rule was in place. You learn something new every day! 🙂

Paul

Kevinwm……..We’ll have to agree to differ,PIK could never survive if it could only tap the area you describe but,surely,these two are under the same ownership,aren’t they?Also,correct me if I’m wrong,but Prestwick has had a rail station for donkey’s years,surely.

The only reason Prestwick survived was that, as a white elephant airport in an area that provided very little traffic if any, the government designated it as the gateway airport to scotland knowing full well that carriers would rather fly to Edinburgh or Glasgow. A bit like how the Irish government protected shannon by making all in bound and outbound transatlantic flights to Dublin route through there.

After the end of WW2 there was in reality very little need for Prestwick apart from supporting the US Navy on the Holy Loch. In recent years Ryanair came along and even more recently the USAF effectively moved their transport operations back in again.

A classic example is I’d never ask someone who’d lost a loved one on the road about road safety policy….they’d always go for draconian measures.

Thats my view from 64 years of “experience”!!!

How on Earth can you possibly liken losing a loved one to having an opinion about an airline?! In what possible way are those two situations even vaguely similar?!

By the way, don’t patronise me. 😉

Paul

P.S. I still stand by my original point, and to be honest, I don’t really see the relevence of what you’re saying. We’re not talking about an insurance company, we’re talking about an airline that whether you agree or not, people working in the industry understand infinitely better than you and I ever will.

As stated a number of times above the frequent turnover of their fleet is part of their business model – saves on maintenance costs

Schorsch

Separate issue,but are you confusing Ireland’s Ryanair with a major US lessor called Ryan Air?
Ryanair don’t buy and sell 737-800’s on any scale apart from disposing of an older batch as new one’s join the fleet.

Barry

Kevinwm……..We’ll have to agree to differ,PIK could never survive if it could only tap the area you describe but,surely,these two are under the same ownership,aren’t they?Also,correct me if I’m wrong,but Prestwick has had a rail station for donkey’s years,surely.

PMN…..simply don’t agree.I worked for Norwich Union for 35 years and always felt we exaggerated our own importance in people’s lives and we most definitely sneered when the equivalent of FR came on the scene (DirectLine/Churchill etc) I’d NEVER solicit insider’s views as I think they’re nearly always biased.A classic example is I’d never ask someone who’d lost a loved one on the road about road safety policy….they’d always go for draconian measures.

Thats my view from 64 years of “experience”!!!

Fact is that RyanAir earned money with selling its B737 to other airliners. In the peak times in 2007 you could sell used aircraft at close to list prices. When you only pay ~50-65% of the list price and sell it for 80%, you make a profit.

First of my job at Glasgow takes me to most major airports in Scotland , so I have no Axe to grid with any of them,
The question raised was about airports re branding to expand their catchment areas, Pik,s catchment was always Ayrshire coast , Dumfires and Galloway were as Glasgow was the central belt,PIK re branded with Glasgow Prestwick after RYR started flying there so as to try and capture the Central belt population, they built the railway link thinking that this would lure all those who fly out of Glasgow , but it didn’t work ,
Prestwick has fallen foul of RYR way of operating ,any other airline starting there has been chased out by RYR at the expense of PIK,

You’re other arguments about Glasgow can easily be applied to PIK

this thread started with MOL threating Boeing, about Major Deals for his aircraft , a tactic which he is uses quite a lot ,He will get a deal but not the one he wants

In essence they have business models which work in two slightly different ways and this has shaped the way their businesses have developed, though both have their origins with the same original business model which was based on Southwest Airlines in the US.

Yes Ryanair have a slightly different model based upon Southwest Airlines, the major difference is that Southwest Airlines knows customers will come back and treats them as people should be treated- like humans.

Ryanair however, treats people like Sh1t, and dosnt care about customers. At the end of the day your lining there pockets thats all they care about.

Difference- Well Southwest is EASILY, VERY EASILY a far classier, better and customer based airline unilke FR and MOL.

I dislike the comparison of Ryan Air with Tesco, the later tend to behave badly with their suppliers, and competitors, but relatively well with its customers.

I think Ryanair have finally crossed the bridge with many people where they are feeling ripped off themselves. Paying for hold luggage…fine with most people, or paying to book in or print off a ticket at the airport, fine.

But now having to pay to print off at home? I also note (having just checked their website), that for visa electron cards they now state “As a special offer to Visa Electron card holders, Ryanair, for a limited period only, will not apply a Debit Card charge”

So there is physically no way of not paying these ‘extras’.