Ryanair – the angels of all european airports

In all my career, I’ve met, spoken too, and filmed the great and the good. Heroes, stars, rockers, politicians, presidents, popes, priests and CEO’s. In all that time there’s only been a couple of folk I felt required a “W” stamp applied to the forehead. Life is a wonderful thing, treat people well and reap the rewards. MOL doesn’t give a good ******* what we think, so let’s not lose too much sleep on the man.

By all means consider yourself as one of the public demanding “cheaper fares” if you wish. I prefer (as an aviation enthusiast) in all manner of ways to seek out the bigger picture. I really don’t think Ryanair see it my way at all. Perhaps a wider discussion ought to be opened up in the new year, as to where exactly the commercial airline business is going these days ?

I suppose you are saving those two names for the autobiog, although perhaps we do know one of them.

No I don’t because I no longer fly, although that has no bearing on my enthusiasm for aviation. A debate in the new year could be very interesting as there are many knowledgeable and opinionated people in these forums. I shall look forward to your thread.

In all my career, I’ve met, spoken too, and filmed the great and the good. Heroes, stars, rockers, politicians, presidents, popes, priests and CEO’s. In all that time there’s only been a couple of folk I felt required a “W” stamp applied to the forehead. Life is a wonderful thing, treat people well and reap the rewards. MOL doesn’t give a good ******* what we think, so let’s not lose too much sleep on the man.

By all means consider yourself as one of the public demanding “cheaper fares” if you wish. I prefer (as an aviation enthusiast) in all manner of ways to seek out the bigger picture. I really don’t think Ryanair see it my way at all. Perhaps a wider discussion ought to be opened up in the new year, as to where exactly the commercial airline business is going these days ?

Yep, he’s certainly not scratching around for his last tenner ahead of pay-day. Merit indeed, call me old fashioned if you will, but I like my scruples… And yes I do pay more for a better service, lucky old me. 😎

Yup, and there’s nothing wrong with that. I was lucky enough to have all my air travel paid for during my 15/20 years “on the road” or “in the air”, more accurately, so I have never had the displeasure of low fare travel. I have friends who feel as you do but say they have little choice, especially when it is a single operator destination or the time slots are inconvenient.

Because O’Leary is businessman that negotiates hard will walk out of a deal if the terms are not to his liking. The thing is, any deal has to come from two sides. It takes two to tango.

The passenger that buys the ticket knows what he is getting into. The terms and conditions are clearly displayed on the website. The destination guide is clear and nowadays they do say they fly to secondary airports so these days that is no longer a valid complaint either. If there is any doubt, a quick google search will list hundreds of websites with personal stories on how Ryanair did not live up to expectations.

Boeing knew what they where getting into. A contract for dozens of 737s does not leave much to interpretation. If it does, the Boeing lawyers ****** up. Was it polite of Ryanair to sell their young 737s that where due for maintenance at very low prices (while still making a profit on the sale), of course not. But nowhere in the contract was it mentioned it was not allowed either. MOL made a guess on where the market was going, and he guessed right making him millions.

The airports complaining about being ripped of, or loosing service. They also have clear contracts detailing what Ryanair expects from the airport, and what the airport expects from Ryanair. If the airports don’t like terms, tough luck… again blame your own lawyers.

The only people I think that have valid reason to complain are the people working at Ryanair. They don’t have much alternatives for employment these days. Especially not if you are unable/unwilling to leave the aviation industry. Everyone else has an alternative. Boeing can sell to numerous other airlines. Passengers can fly with lots of other airlines. Airports can try to attract other airlines. But for many that’s too expensive or too much work. Well, you can’t have it both ways.

I am no great fan of Ryanair, purely because of the destinations they serve. The only destination they serve from my local that I ike is Madrid. But credit where credit is due, they build a large and profitable airline that does exactly what it promises… and nothing more. If people/companies are too lazy to properly read the T&C’s, well, that’s hardly Ryanair’s fault is it?

It’s all very well saying that and it may be factually correct, but the mention of O’Leary’s name doesn’t disgust people for no reason. The way he runs his airline, the way he introduces charges, the way he treats those paying to actually keep his airline in operation, etc, are all reasons for him to possibly be one of the most hated figures in European aviation. He does himself no favours, contracts or not.

Paul

I reckon you’ve just about covered it all there! Yet, despite it all they still fly, prepared to accept your list of horrors. Perhaps it’s a bit like Tesco – you struggle to find a customer who doesn’t complain about it but they still shop there.

I have heard him interviewed a few times and he certainly doesn’t give a toss and he talks straight and he doesn’t bull**** and So he has some merit.

Yep, he’s certainly not scratching around for his last tenner ahead of pay-day. Merit indeed, call me old fashioned if you will, but I like my scruples… And yes I do pay more for a better service, lucky old me. 😎

Poor treatment of customers, horrendous customer service, a prevailing attitude that if you want it cheap then expect to be abused, cynical cabin crew, overworked flight crew, constant pressure to buy Pringles and cheap after shave, garish interiors, holding the proverbial gun at airport operators heads, pious ‘god-like’ delusions…

I’ve met Mr O’ Lousy personally, and I didn’t like him very much, smug, sneering and extremely patronising. That do… ?

I reckon you’ve just about covered it all there! Yet, despite it all they still fly, prepared to accept your list of horrors. Perhaps it’s a bit like Tesco – you struggle to find a customer who doesn’t complain about it but they still shop there.

I have heard him interviewed a few times and he certainly doesn’t give a toss and he talks straight and he doesn’t bull**** and So he has some merit.

Ah, yes and Concorde in its last year was more than 300,000 pennies, wasn’t it? So, back to O’Leary – if that’s how it works why so much antagonism?

Because O’Leary is businessman that negotiates hard will walk out of a deal if the terms are not to his liking. The thing is, any deal has to come from two sides. It takes two to tango.

The passenger that buys the ticket knows what he is getting into. The terms and conditions are clearly displayed on the website. The destination guide is clear and nowadays they do say they fly to secondary airports so these days that is no longer a valid complaint either. If there is any doubt, a quick google search will list hundreds of websites with personal stories on how Ryanair did not live up to expectations.

Boeing knew what they where getting into. A contract for dozens of 737s does not leave much to interpretation. If it does, the Boeing lawyers ****** up. Was it polite of Ryanair to sell their young 737s that where due for maintenance at very low prices (while still making a profit on the sale), of course not. But nowhere in the contract was it mentioned it was not allowed either. MOL made a guess on where the market was going, and he guessed right making him millions.

The airports complaining about being ripped of, or loosing service. They also have clear contracts detailing what Ryanair expects from the airport, and what the airport expects from Ryanair. If the airports don’t like terms, tough luck… again blame your own lawyers.

The only people I think that have valid reason to complain are the people working at Ryanair. They don’t have much alternatives for employment these days. Especially not if you are unable/unwilling to leave the aviation industry. Everyone else has an alternative. Boeing can sell to numerous other airlines. Passengers can fly with lots of other airlines. Airports can try to attract other airlines. But for many that’s too expensive or too much work. Well, you can’t have it both ways.

I am no great fan of Ryanair, purely because of the destinations they serve. The only destination they serve from my local that I ike is Madrid. But credit where credit is due, they build a large and profitable airline that does exactly what it promises… and nothing more. If people/companies are too lazy to properly read the T&C’s, well, that’s hardly Ryanair’s fault is it?

Poor treatment of customers, horrendous customer service, a prevailing attitude that if you want it cheap then expect to be abused, cynical cabin crew, overworked flight crew, constant pressure to buy Pringles and cheap after shave, garish interiors, holding the proverbial gun at airport operators heads, pious ‘god-like’ delusions…

I’ve met Mr O’ Lousy personally, and I didn’t like him very much, smug, sneering and extremely patronising. That do… ?

That’s what I like to see… Someone saying it exactly as they see it! 😀

Paul

Ah, yes and Concorde in its last year was more than 300,000 pennies, wasn’t it? So, back to O’Leary – if that’s how it works why so much antagonism?

Poor treatment of customers, horrendous customer service, a prevailing attitude that if you want it cheap then expect to be abused, cynical cabin crew, overworked flight crew, constant pressure to buy Pringles and cheap after shave, garish interiors, holding the proverbial gun at airport operators heads, pious ‘god-like’ delusions…

I’ve met Mr O’ Lousy personally, and I didn’t like him very much, smug, sneering and extremely patronising. That do… ?

if that’s how it works why so much antagonism?

Because O’Leary’s sneaky and devious, and no-one else is. At least not quite as much!

Paul

Yes, I think the idea is that you ‘give away’ the product which in itself creates interest in the product, which in turn entitles you to charge the consumer whatever you think they are willing to pay… one penny or three thousand pennies…?

BA hatched a similar concept with their Concorde pricing back in the day. More than three thousand pennies, needless to say. 😉

Ah, yes and Concorde in its last year was more than 300,000 pennies, wasn’t it? So, back to O’Leary – if that’s how it works why so much antagonism?

Ah yes, just like British Airways across the UK.

Ren shrugs, sighs and recalls the glory days when a national airline truly served a nation… 😉

Interesting so the average passenger fare will almost certainly be well above the “low fare” except to some dedicated holiday destinations, perhaps.

Yes, I think the idea is that you ‘give away’ the product which in itself creates interest in the product, which in turn entitles you to charge the consumer whatever you think they are willing to pay… one penny or three thousand pennies…?

BA hatched a similar concept with their Concorde pricing back in the day. More than three thousand pennies, needless to say. 😉

Ryanair planes don’t really fly full of low fare passengers though. A month or more in advance you may well be able to get ridiculously cheap fares, but as as it starts to fill up the price increases. Certainly on the LBA-DUB route it isn’t too uncommon to find return fares of £300 near the date of travel, and there are people who pay that. Granted, that’s primarily a business route and if people need to travel they will, regardless of the cost, but I’m sure similar applies to other routes as well.

Paul

Interesting so the average passenger fare will almost certainly be well above the “low fare” except to some dedicated holiday destinations, perhaps.

Yeah right, tell that to all of the airports where he’s gone in all guns blazing and then pulled out or reduced capacity! :rolleyes:

Andy

Ah yes, just like British Airways across the UK.

I am not disputing what you say but surely it is far more complicated than that. A full plane load of low fair passengers remunerates the airline, and only indirectly the inherent costs. These costs are bourne by every airline just as any business has to pay its suppliers out of its income.

Ryanair planes don’t really fly full of low fare passengers though. A month or more in advance you may well be able to get ridiculously cheap fares, but as as it starts to fill up the price increases. Certainly on the LBA-DUB route it isn’t too uncommon to find return fares of £300 near the date of travel, and there are people who pay that. Granted, that’s primarily a business route and if people need to travel they will, regardless of the cost, but I’m sure similar applies to other routes as well.

Paul

There is more – or much much less depending on your outlook – to Ryanair than any member of the public will ever realize. Ryanair has done more to harm the aviation industry than the sum of allowing more people to fly.

Make no mistake, flying is an expensive business from start-to-finish. The regulation that makes flying safer, often makes it more expensive. Think of part suppliers; Goodrich, Bridgestone, Honeywell, Liebherr who develop aircraft parts, and must certify their components for aircraft. Think of the training involved for the men and woman who handle, fly and maintain aircraft. Think of the people and experience required to manage, and control flight operation. Think of those that safely guide your aircraft from A-to-B (or-C). Start to build that mental image of all those involved in the day-to-day operations.

You will quickly figure (I hope) that a 737-800 full of “low-fares” doesn’t cover a great deal of the inherent costs.

What you have had over the years has been the continual degradation of pay, T&C’s and moral of those same people who were already in the industry. New staff are getting less and less and are expected to do the same job, for longer with less.

Just as the low-fares have ripped the **** from the industry, the full-fare airlines have been guilty of ripping of the flying public. They now have large cost base that cannot compete with the likes of Ryanair. There is a sweet-spot between these two extremes, but the public want to pay as little as possible.

I have seen far too many skillful, experienced people leave the industry – and that is the real cost of “low-fares”!

I am not disputing what you say but surely it is far more complicated than that. A full plane load of low fair passengers remunerates the airline, and only indirectly the inherent costs. These costs are bourne by every airline just as any business has to pay its suppliers out of its income.

Any airline that fails to do so will go out of business. In a free market economy the rules of the market apply with some exceptions, so I presume that costs are reduced because competition drives the costs down and/or market forces do, which is the other side of the same coin.

But – perhaps my analysis is simplistic and I would welcome enlightenment as I have always thought Freddie Laker was a fine model.

Why are you so opposed to “low-fare” airlines apart from the global warming/climate change element, which is a quite separate debate and may or may not be relevant. Do you object to people being able to enjoy the benefits and adventure of travel provided by low cost airlines which they would otherwise not enjoy?

There is more – or much much less depending on your outlook – to Ryanair than any member of the public will ever realize. Ryanair has done more to harm the aviation industry than the sum of allowing more people to fly.

Make no mistake, flying is an expensive business from start-to-finish. The regulation that makes flying safer, often makes it more expensive. Think of part suppliers; Goodrich, Bridgestone, Honeywell, Liebherr who develop aircraft parts, and must certify their components for aircraft. Think of the training involved for the men and woman who handle, fly and maintain aircraft. Think of the people and experience required to manage, and control flight operation. Think of those that safely guide your aircraft from A-to-B (or-C). Start to build that mental image of all those involved in the day-to-day operations.

You will quickly figure (I hope) that a 737-800 full of “low-fares” doesn’t cover a great deal of the inherent costs.

What you have had over the years has been the continual degradation of pay, T&C’s and moral of those same people who were already in the industry. New staff are getting less and less and are expected to do the same job, for longer with less.

Just as the low-fares have ripped the **** from the industry, the full-fare airlines have been guilty of ripping of the flying public. They now have large cost base that cannot compete with the likes of Ryanair. There is a sweet-spot between these two extremes, but the public want to pay as little as possible.

I have seen far too many skillful, experienced people leave the industry – and that is the real cost of “low-fares”!

Although their vari-national owners may like to pretend otherwise, the British tabloid press does not constitute “the whole of Europe”.

Sarcasm, mate. Sarcasm. 😉

Paul

I wouldn’t be too upset to see all the so called “low-fare” airlines gone, not just Ryanair – although Ryanair are by far the worst of the bunch. If nothing else, it’d do wonders for aviation’s position versus global warming/climate change for there to be such a reduction in air travel

Anyway, the news this morning appears to be that Boeing have refused to bow to Ryanair’s pressure with respect to acquiring 200 more 737s, so with any luck maybe we’ll see the Harp’s growth stunted soon

Andy

Why are you so opposed to “low-fare” airlines apart from the global warming/climate change element, which is a quite separate debate and may or may not be relevant. Do you object to people being able to enjoy the benefits and adventure of travel provided by low cost airlines which they would otherwise not enjoy?