Science Museum,London:The Flight Gallery (a few largish pics)

Ant,
Not a problem – it’s just that from small accidental slips do great acorns flourish and suddenly you could find your mistake is total gospel to small section of society and all because they saw it written down or on computer!
(Boring bit: Many years ago I was enjoying a day off from work but got rung up and pushed into identifying a Royal Navy aircraft carrier over the phone which – because the party on the other end decided that a 1950s FAA colour scheme of single grey upper surfaces with red/white/blue ‘bullseye’ type roundels on Supermarine Attackers [even now that more or less narrows it down to HMS Eagle] was the same as my description of a dour two tone camouflage on aircraft with propellers at the front(!) – resulted in an awful lot of old sailors registering complaints about shoddy research! All because some dopey sub-editor wanted to show the readers what an aircraft carrier looked like on Atlantic convoy runs – or something – in WWII. Biggest problem is that because of stupid and cheap computer software once the picture was on that system that was it; you couldn’t change or edit the caption details so it gets hooked out and used again and again. Moral of this story: Don’t upset ex-matelots who might have sons in the Royal Marines!)

Just to confirm: W4041/G was the first Gloster E28/29 and, as far as all my info sources can confirm, the first of the two to fly by nearly two years. There is nothing second about it – except as a jet design, maybe.

Problem I have found with digital cameras is that at slow shutter speeds or in low light conditions the pix have a tendency to appear like digital video stills, although I am not sure if this is caused by image sharpening in the camera’s software or because the carrier (i.e. you!) is not totally stable. I always try to support my compact camera indoors whenever possible – you can get a mini tripod for a few £££s or lean against pillars and banisters just like you used to in the days of ‘ye olde fashioned’ film (remember those days – you don’t get nostalgia like you used to!). I have found (totally by accident) that I can (occasionally!) comfortably hand-hold my SLR at speeds as low as 1/15th of a second at f5.6 – not something I’d recommend to do constantly though. Strangely museums don’t like you carrying monopods around – looks a bit Neolithic I suppose…

Flood.

I did a bit of research of the E-28/39 a few years ago for some plans I was drawing. It was ‘named’ several times but nothing really stuck; though ‘Pioneer’ was the most used and appropriate.

It’s a very historic airframe, and like most experimental and test aircraft it underwent a lot of changes, the socumenting of which is very difficult.

It had two types of wing ‘low speed’ and ‘high speed’ – the latter being more laminar flow. In it’s latter career it had finlets on the horizontal tailplane too. Undercarriage variations, and engine changes…. As regards the colours it was originally unpainted (first tests and first flight) then green / brown / yellow, then green / grey / yellow; and the types of roundel appropriate to the period. Today it’s in the early green / brown with late war (thin white band) roundels which is ‘wrong’ – but it’s worn these for longer than any of it’s colours, so it’s true for the last 50 years! (But not very authentic for it’s in use life.)

HTH
Cheers

Ant, I’ve got a pedant mode too. W4041/G is the first Gloster Whittle.

I’ve got one reference to W4046/G being referred to as the Weaver but read several times that the type was called Pioneer.
Barrie Hygate in British Experimental Jet Aircraft says that W4041/G is in a spurious colour scheme. Anybody know what he means?

Originally posted by aj_march
Is the Supermarine S6B in its original paintwork, looks a bit tatty otherwise? I went there a few weeks ago.

As far as I know the aircraft has nver been restored although it may well have been repainted in the last 70 odd years. I took this shot back in April.

Hi Flood,
What I should’ve said was ‘this is the second Gloster Whittle,W4041/G”.Strange how a missing comma can make things look!I wasn’t suggesting there’d been another with the same serial.
Camera equipment?Well,not much really.Didn’t even take a bag with me!I just had a small Olympus pocket digi-cam,nothing fancy.
You might have noticed that I didn’t use flash-this is because I tried it a couple of times and it ended up looking like a picture of something at Hendon,ie the immediate foreground bright as day,and the background in total darkness,so i gave up and tried relying on natural light.The little viewing screen on the back of my camera also gives a very bright picture,giving the impression that the picture had come out better than it actually has on the screen here.I think I should’ve rethought the flash thing,particularly in that head on shot of the SE5.

Hi David,
I think we should take this off into pedant corner and leave the others to play properly eh?

Having had a close look at the provonance of the ex-Berlin Spin, it’s a bit grandfather’s axe, though in principle, I agree you are right. I could go with the German side of the Eindekker’s history of course…

Either way, there’s more historic a/c per capita in the Science Museum’s collection than any other UK collection, and only a few other collections could clain to outrank it. They did have a certain Wright Flyer until 1948 when they gave it back to the Smithsonian, after the Smithsonian admitted they’d lied and cheated about Langly’s claims. Now THAT’S a story…

Cheers

JDK- I think the oldest surviving Dutch aircraft is the Fokker Spin
that was returned to Holland from the remnants of the Berlin
collection in Poland.

G’day,
OK. The Science Museum holds ‘The National Aeronautical Collection’. Most of the machines are very, very, very, historic or important. Amy Johnson’s Moth; Alcock & Brown’s Vimy; the oldest jet aircraft in the world (second to fly after the Heinkel He178, destored by the RAF in 1944); the only genuine W.W.I Eindekker (and I think the oldest German (or Dutch – you choose) aircraft in the world; the S6 and the Schnider Trophy itself; the only fabric winged Mk.1 Hurricane with Battle of Britain history; etc, etc, etc.

Bloody awful setup as you say Ant, but probably the most important collection of aircraft from the point of view of ‘history’ and world records held.

The SE5 was restored to Savage colours and configuration in the 1990s from a bad mock W.W.I scheme. I think the wings were done by Skysport, the fuselage recovered and the pipes (with fake asbestos covering) added by the Science Museum conservitors.

Hope this helps,
Cheers

Irritating pedant mode on please, thank you!

The Science Museums Gloster E28/29 is the only W4041/G (first flying 15/5/41, and has been with the museum since 1946) – the only other Gloster E28/29 was the ‘only’ W4046/G (which flew for the first time 1/3/43) and she crashed 30/7/43. Apparently the type was called Weaver.

Irritating pedant mode off:D ta!

I would ask you all sorts of questions about photographic equipment (can remember going up there on a school trip and lugging a tripod around all day!) but leave it all up to you to say what you have/used. Know what you mean about grainy – think yourself lucky its not ‘noise’ as well!:mad:

Flood.

..and finally a detail of the Vimy’s starboard engine and impressive 4-blade prop.
To answer your question AJ,the S.6B is undergoing some restoration and conservation work at the moment.The machine struck a submerged object and sank in the Solent on return from it’s last flight in the 30’s (the pilot was lucky to get out alive as the aircraft had capsized and the Solent isn’t that deep-he had seconds to get out before he was trapped.)The aircraft was recovered and the guys at Supermarine did a superficial refurbishment before handing her over to the museum.She’s never really been quite right since,and some of her more delicate componenets are currently being worked on elsewhere,including the wooden bits such as the rudder.I got a slightly dark grainy pic of her,but it’s not really worth posting. 🙁

The Vimy is the original Alcock & Brown Atlantic crosser. It was rebuilt after its crash landing in Ireland in 1919 and presented to the museum in the early 20’s. It only has a BAPC number as it flew too early to merit a civil registration.
Nice to see the SE5a in a civil scheme, what a sight those sky writers must have been in their day? NIce for a trip up to the museum have not been since school trips in the 80’s.

…and finally a couple of the Vimy.I couldn’t find an info board for this one,so I’ve only got W&R to go on,which states that it is Alcock and Brown’s machine from 1919,but also gives it’s ID as ‘BAPC.51’,which suggests it’s a replica-anyone know for sure??
One side has been stripped from noase to tail to reveal the the aicraft’s innards.

This is the second Gloster Whittle W4041/G,and the worlds only survivor (the other crashed during testing).Was placed on display here in 1945,and is still resplendant in it’s original paintwork.
In the foreground is HS.125 G-ASSM,which proved impossible to get a complete photo of.

Another of the SE…

This is SE.5A G-EBIB,formerly F937 with 85Sqn.Post war it was used as a skywriting aircraft,hence the long exhaust pipes which had diesel pumped into them to creat the smoke.This aircraft was finally retired in 1935 and handed over to the museum.

…and now for something completely different.This is Hawker’s P.1127 XP831,the one which used to be on display at Hendon a few years ago.

Keeping with the German theme,this is Fokker E.III 210/16,forced down behind allied lines on April 8th 1916.It’s been on display at the museum since 1918.