Scorpion Class patrol boats..

And of course the Pop Group is there for the OSA-MA, although this system is way too outdated, being only capable of tracking one target and guiding two missiles to that target… I’m not surprised by its failure on the export market.

The SA-8 seemed to export OK…

AFAIK, Neustrashimiy uses the ASW helo, since she’s really ASW oriented… I don’t know whether the guidance heloes they use can be used with this ship, normally you need a special datalink for that and I’m not sure whether Uran can receive such guidance either.

It was my understanding that the Ka-27 Helix version of the naval helo had enough extra load capacity and a built in surface search radar as standard that they dropped the custom designed missile guidance model of the Hormone an any version of the Helix could perform the missile guidance role.

Very nice pics BTW. Thanks.

And of course the Pop Group is there for the OSA-MA, although this system is way too outdated, being only capable of tracking one target and guiding two missiles to that target… I’m not surprised by its failure on the export market.

The SA-8 seemed to export OK…

AFAIK, Neustrashimiy uses the ASW helo, since she’s really ASW oriented… I don’t know whether the guidance heloes they use can be used with this ship, normally you need a special datalink for that and I’m not sure whether Uran can receive such guidance either.

It was my understanding that the Ka-27 Helix version of the naval helo had enough extra load capacity and a built in surface search radar as standard that they dropped the custom designed missile guidance model of the Hormone an any version of the Helix could perform the missile guidance role.

Since my photobucket seems to be repaired, here you have Pilkiy, one of the two upgraded Krivak Is (Pylkiy in Baltic fleet, Legkiy in Norhtern Fleet).

This picture is taken by Guy Toremans! Please do not use it on any other site! And also try not to download it or my Photobucket will be closed again, which will force me to close it all down and send the pictures to the ones I think will appreciate them….

You can see the Uran racks just in front of the bridge, but no associated radars (and given the shape of the racks, I wonder whether these are Uran racks at all)… Only the two Eye Bowl guidance radars for Silex/Rastrub, Palm Front (Navigation radars), two Pop Group (one on top of the Bridge, one in the back,the OSA-MA launcher is just behind the funnel) and the Kite Screech radar (in the back). The funny thing is of course that this ship still has two main guns in the back, of which the most aft one seems to be quite useless, given the new VDS that’s blocking the field of fire of this gunmount… One wonder’s if the gun has any use at all… Jonesy, you’ll get the high-res picture as soon as I finish my exams.

As a general note, it should be said that all those new corvettes and frigates seem to have gotten rid of the RBU-launchers… The upgraded Krivaks also got the Uran racks instead of those RBU launchers… It’s good for “stealth” to get rid of those launchers, but I wonder why they got rid of them, since they are regarded as quite good systems!

Then the Russia Arms catalog has made a mistake…
The large dome on top of the bridge, is a “Band Stand” (used for Moskit) as mentioned by Hazegray, I don’t believe that, I think it’s just the same dome, but with a Garpun-Bal underneath… I think the Algerian Nanuchka’s that were upgraded with Uran, had the same thing, although it could as well be a Band Stand after all, adapted to guide Uran too now. I’ll have a look at that when time allows. Anyway, the guidance radar for Uran is there for sure! Bass Tilt is there too (in front of the “Band Stand” )for the AK-630s and the main gun. As you can see, the same Positiv-ME (Wanshan you’re right) is on top of the mast on Tartarstan. Not for Kashtan of course. And of course the Pop Group is there for the OSA-MA, although this system is way too outdated, being only capable of tracking one target and guiding two missiles to that target… I’m not surprised by its failure on the export market.
AFAIK, Neustrashimiy uses the ASW helo, since she’s really ASW oriented… I don’t know whether the guidance heloes they use can be used with this ship, normally you need a special datalink for that and I’m not sure whether Uran can receive such guidance either. They have always used in on their large missiles (Moskit, Bazalt, Granit). If it’s possible, then I suppose they could switch the helo as soon as Uran is fitted… BUt this won’t happen I suppose.

I won’t be online for some time now, exams coming up, starting tomorrow (don’t worry, tomorrow is just English–>easy one).

BTW what is that white dome above the hangar between the Kashtan-1s?

Surveillance radar used specifically in conjunction with Kashtans (may be Positive-ME)

Garry, Neustrashimiy is not fitted for but not with Uran, she doesn’t have anything that supports this weapon, no Garpun-Bal guidance radar, nor a rack.

Which model Helo does the Neustrashimiy carry? Perhaps it relies upon helicopter guidance due to its range of 120km being over the horizon? I just posted fitted for but not with because all of my (admittedly older western books on the subject) suggest so.

The Gepard is listed in Russias’ Arms 2001-2002 as having 8 (2 x 4) Urans, but regarding electronics it only mentioned the Positive-ME surveillance radar and the Spectr-FN laser emission detector and ECM systems, so in the entry for the Neustrashimiy it doesn’t surprise me that it doesn’t list any fire control system for Uran. BTW what is that white dome above the hangar between the Kashtan-1s?

Garry, Neustrashimiy is not fitted for but not with Uran, she doesn’t have anything that supports this weapon, no Garpun-Bal guidance radar, nor a rack. Those racks can be found on Pilkiy and Legkiy, the upgraded Krivak Is. They don’t have the weapon, nor the radar, but they at least do have the racks to fit the missiles if needed. The only ships in the Russian Navy with Uran are Smetliviy (Kashin 2) and Tartarstan (Gepard). I suppose after the sale of this weapon to India and Algeria, they suppose it is proven enough for export deals that they don’t need the weapon (by their demand) themselves to prove it any further. It’s probably much like Lada, I suppose that was one of the main reasons why they wanted to complete her first, after her trials, they have some material to promote the Amur export a bit further.

Well would the Silex be effective against Los Angeles and Seawolf subs?

The Silex is basically a rocket that carrys a torpedo to the general area of a target and drops it in the water. Its performance against targets depends upon what torpedo you happen to have fitted and the performance of the target, and of course the ability of the launch vessel to detect the target in the first place. I guess with an aggressive ASW force with active sonar, dipping sonar and aircraft dropped sonar buoys pretty much anything could be found whether they made noise or not (ie mines). The performance of the torpedo will be the main concern in the terminal part of the attack, and I don’t know about Silex, but the 91ETR2 can be fitted with a range of Torpedo types, including western ones.

Well would the Silex be effective against Los Angeles and Seawolf subs?

Uhh?! The first Neustrashimiy carries no Anti-Ship missiles?

It was fitted for but not with 16 Uran launchers.

It’s not impossible that these are indeed hatches for a VLS, but since they seem to be single hatches I doubt it would have any weapons. It could as well be a supply hatch, like seen on many Russian vessels.

But their position is very strange. It is loacted between the AK mount and the funnel. The AK mount is loaded internally and funnels aren’t loaded from above. There is no other armament on the superstructure at all. I thought they might be two quad launchers for Iglas… a bit like the twin land based Djit system. But then where are the Shtils? Unless it is wrong I would prefer the theory that the front VLS is 8 Shtils and the rear hatches are for the Clubs, but I am not happy with this.

here is your picture again to show others what we are talking about… the orange arrow I have added shows double hatches that open. They are split down the middle. The red arrows show the way they open.

Rastrub/Silex is an old system, as a anti-ship system it’s rather primitive and probably has little value in that role… As an anti-submarine missile it’s more useful, although it requires a very good sonar suite to be used to full advantage and range. I do think they can find a smaller and cheaper replacement by now though… The Medvedka missile has a range about half of Rastrub, about 20km.

The 91RTE2 is the long range ship based replacement for the SS-N-4. It has a range of 40km and is a much more compact and elegant weapon. It could be used in vertical launchers with Clubs for any anti ship requirement. Medvedka is a much lighter system for very small vessels.

It’s a good ship that always operates with the Sovremennys around it, no need for it to carry its own anti-ship missiles! It’s very capable to defend itself and very good for anti-submarine warfare, in which the Sovremennys lack a bit.

Rastrub/Silex is an old system, as a anti-ship system it’s rather primitive and probably has little value in that role… As an anti-submarine missile it’s more useful, although it requires a very good sonar suite to be used to full advantage and range. I do think they can find a smaller and cheaper replacement by now though… The Medvedka missile has a range about half of Rastrub, about 20km.

Severo we should create some sort of website about the modern russian navy, what do you say.. a really good one u know, with links on the site to weapons systems, radars, etc..

Umm, pardon me for being so blind, but.. what the hell kind of ship is that 😐 No anti-ship missiles..

also severo, how capable do you think the SS-N-14 “Silex?” is?

Good question, these hatches have been my concern too. It’s not impossible that these are indeed hatches for a VLS, but since they seem to be single hatches I doubt it would have any weapons. It could as well be a supply hatch, like seen on many Russian vessels.
Shtil, as I said before, it would be impossible since there is no guidance radar around… It could of course have a new active or IR guided SAM instead… I heard they were working on a R-27 or similar missile for VLS launches. It’s hard estimate the size of that hatch, but compared to the AK-630 mount, it looks rather small for more than 2 or 4 missiles…
Considering the electronic outfit of this ship, the Klub and AK-630s and the main gun (both guided by the Bass Tilt) seem to be the only weapons. And since the Russians always use a different radar for most systems, I don’t think there’s anything else (except for the helo and torpedo tubes of course).
Is that drawing in the book similar to this ship? Or does it have some differences?

Edit: I just looked at an old post of mine at acig.org and maybe the VLS could be for Medvedka-VE, there seems to be a single VLS for 6 Medvedka-VE anti-submarine rocket/torpedo on the project 20382 “Tiger” corvettes. Maybe these are 3 VLSs for 2 missiles each? Although I doubt the position of the middle one, so close to the superstructure and mast…

Garry, if it’s a Russian ship, the name would be Yezh (for Shtil-1) or Uragan (for Shtil) since these are the domestic names. I don’t see any on this ship, but maybe we have a little comunication problem here… I am talking about the last picture I posted.

I think the main communication problem is my fault. I looked at the picture you posted and as you can see on the plaque next to the model it says 1,800 ton corvette. The other photos also have similar plaques with different weights. These designs are listed in Russia’s Arms 2004 but aren’t named… as I pointed out when I I posted my post above. My mistake was that I didn’t see the listing for the Clubs so when I read that the vessel carrys Shtils… 8 of them I looked at the drawing provided in the book and saw the 8 cell launcher just behind the 100mm gun. I looked over the rest of the boat for an arm launcher for the Shtil and couldn’t find one and as I didn’t see the listed 8 Clubs as being weapons carried too I just assumed the the VLS cells contained the Shtils. Apart from four large square hatches at the rear of the boat two on each side of the vessel but opening vertically placed between the funnel and the rear 30mm gun mount I can see no other potential weapon stations… these hatches seem to encroach on the Helicopter hangar, though as the latter is extendible it might not be much of a problem…. in fact four vertical launchers might be the reason the helicopter hangar is extendible.

Is it a case that the Clubs are in these rear vertical launch hatches and the Shtils are fitted forward in VLS cells or the other way around, or are there no Shtils?

Garry, if it’s a Russian ship, the name would be Yezh (for Shtil-1) or Uragan (for Shtil) since these are the domestic names.

Russia’s Arms 2004 is an export catalog. Every thing in it is export orientated.
For example for anti ship missiles there are entries for Uran-E and 3M-80E, and Club but no entry for Yakhont.

Dionis: Nope
Garry, if it’s a Russian ship, the name would be Yezh (for Shtil-1) or Uragan (for Shtil) since these are the domestic names. I don’t see any on this ship, but maybe we have a little comunication problem here… I am talking about the last picture I posted. Talwar does have Shtil-1 and Klub, so maybe what you are saying is for the Talwar class? Although Talwar doesn’t have AK-630 and Iglas… Or you are talking about something completely different, since the Russians have many many projects running…
The Bass Tilt is indeed used for most of their older guns. It’s all the same radar! But mostly it’s used with the AK-630s, two gun mounts per radar and sometimes on small vessels 1 gunmount for the single radar.

Uhh?! The first Neustrashimiy carries no Anti-Ship missiles?

The RA-2004 catalog is dual language Russian and English and normally if there is an error (like for one rocket launcher they had 45,000m for range when it was actually 4,500m range) it is only on one side. In this entry it says Shtil on both sides… Russian and English.

Shtil???? I really don’t see any Shtil/Yezh on it! Nor any guidance radar for it. Note the small waterjet at the stern.
Anyhow, I checked a report on Russian Navy, updated till August and it says one Skorpion is under construction.

Oops that last vessel (1,800ton corvette) is supposed to be fitted with 8 club-N antiship missiles in addition to the other weapons I mentioned (AA- 8 x Shtil, 12 x Igla-1E, gun mounts 1 x A-190 100mm, 2 x AK-630M 30mm, antisub 4 torpedo tubes).

Regarding teh efficiency of the AK-630, this is hardly a new weapon but for use against harpoons and other subsonic sea skimmers it is certainly no worse than goalkeeper or phalanx. Add the offensive capability of a helo and I think it looks like a useful little boat.

The Bass Tilt radar can do both searching and tracking, but can only track 1 single target, so with one radar and two gun mounts it can still only attack one missile… Kashtan is of course better, because of its dual layered defense, but is of course much more space consuming and more importantly much more expensive!

Not sure which system counts as Bass Tilt as the radars the AK 30mm gatling gun series as well as the 57mm and 76mm guns use all look the same to me.
The older models had TV backup and the new models have Thermal imaging and TV backups. With tracking ranges of 30-45km I would assume they could be used in the track while scan mode to display the most dangerous targets, the Shtils can engage some targets while the two 30mm guns can fight the leakers while the ESM and ECM suite tries to make the rest ignore the ship. In their description the 30mm firecontrol radars are describes as being able to control up to two mounts. They have never had a problem putting too few radars on their vessels before.