Scrapping the Nimrods at Woodford

I will correct that, I didn’t mean the Filton site was closing, its ability to produce complet aircraft or work on them will go should the airfield close as planned at the end of this year.

As far as I’m aware, Filton isn’t closing as such, it’s the airfield that’s going. The Airbus bits produced there will be transported by ferry in future.

No,

Presumably you think Blair and Brown are blameless? :rolleyes:

History will recall

Thatcher screwed the Steel industry.

Cameron did the same for the UK Aviation Industry.

Woodford closed.

Chadderton closed.

Brough closed.

Filton closing.

Heart breaking, can’t afford to fly the aircraft, but can afford to keep the people on the dole and thereby lose the skills for generations to come.

bloody criminal…

Absolutely… There are no other words to describe it.

Such a sad sad waste.

Not for the feint hearted these links… looks like someone did managed to get some shorts of the scrapping…

http://www.edendale.co.uk/ANW/WFD.801.21B.html
http://www.edendale.co.uk/ANW/WFD.801.23.html
http://www.edendale.co.uk/ANW/WFD.801.23.html
http://www.edendale.co.uk/ANW/WFD.801.25.html
http://www.edendale.co.uk/ANW/WFD.801.30.html
http://www.edendale.co.uk/ANW/WFD.801.31.html

f**king bloody criminal…

:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Zeb

“De-winged pics” of RJX here:

http://www.edendale.co.uk/ANW/WFD.RJX.2.html

A small museum would be fitting. The AEW Nimrod nose on ebay (shown on another thread) would be a nice addition! 😮

That would be a great idea and I think that some sort of heritage proposal is in the planning documentation for the future of the site. I don’t think it will involve the Vulcan though. I believe it is due to be scrapped fairly soon.

Thanks Arthur.

Do you think there’s any way a proposal could be put forward to include the Vulcan with the AVRO hangers as a kind of memorial once the rest has gone? It would have been nice if the MOSI with their mandate of North West aviation heritage could have done something to help possibly.

MH

It is going to Prestwick. The wings have been scrapped but the rest has been retained. The fin and tailplane have been removed for transit.

The RJX fuselage is due to be moved off-site today, leaving, rather appropriately the Vulcan as the only airframe on-site.

Where abouts is the RJX off to Arthur? Is the whole thing being retained or is it just a fuselage now?

MH

Don’t the RAF still have the Sentry for AEW?

I wonder if this true…..

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/nimrod-u-turn-blunder-set-to-cost-uk-hundreds-of-millions-1.1105372?

It does, but for how long!!

Don’t the RAF still have the Sentry for AEW?

I wonder if this true…..

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/nimrod-u-turn-blunder-set-to-cost-uk-hundreds-of-millions-1.1105372?

I wonder how many people are writing books on the MRA4 debacle?

I don’t know about writing a book on the subject, I have been scanning photographs from the early phases of MRA4 for about two weeks now (just my own collection) and I’m not even half way through! – Mike

I wonder how many people are writing books on the MRA4 debacle? I think Stephen Hastings was first to cover the TSR2 debacle with “Murder of the TSR2”, but “Murder of the MRA4” sounds as though it will be much more interesting. I will certainly be a customer for any such book.

Its gone. Stop bickering.

In basic terms, Nimrod 2000, cancelled 2011, 11 years, that is where that came from, under reconsideration it was actually Oct 10 when it was cancelled, so just over ten years.

How does that work then ? if the first Nimrod 2000 (MR4) was delivered flawlessly on the date in the original program i.e. Dec 2001, by your method it would be nearly 2 years late……….an if PA21 achived perfect delivery in May 2006 it would be 6 years late. With respect your assessment is complete and utter nonsense.

Your figures may be correct.

Yes, my dates (figures) are correct and in many cases can be independently checked against info in the public domain. The original contract can be accessed by the FoIA.

but they are presented in a way that makes the situation look better than other sources suggest.

Your are dates are highly prejudice and utter nonsense. Please quote what your authoritative “source” actually is. BTW the Daily Mail, Telegraph, Wiki are not.

When you say that the first one was handed over in March 2010, that was a service ready aircraft ready for use?.

No, as with any first of type, it goes to Service acceptance trials. But in program terms the milestone is highly distinctive and allows an apples with apples comparison.

What about the pausing and grounding during flight testing on safety grounds, and the reports that the aircraft may have still struggled to have met the customers operational & safety clearances?

The MR4 project test pilots on PPRUNE have both said at length, that upon hand over the AC had met all the required airworthiness requirements. I believe them, and not you or any politician.

convert old handbuilt airframes using substantial modern engineered parts

All metallic modern aircraft have a significant degree of hand assembly. Are you trying to infer the utter rubbish in the press about build variability within the fleet. Please quote what your authoritative “source” actually is. BTW the Daily Mail, Telegraph, Wiki are not. Please also advise as to how many actual MR4 schemes you personally approved for release to manufacture & flight (I did about 150 many of which involved the installation of modern engineering into old handbuilt airframes), or even if you have every seen a real MR4 DFM model. If you believe the press then honestly your clueless!

that the whole thing smacked of mismanagement within BAE and upper MoD procurement

Ah at last something we agree on.

If completed MR4 would have been truly outstanding. It was a viable project when conceived which was right royally messed up in the execution.

Where does 11 years come from? Do you make it up?

In basic terms, Nimrod 2000, cancelled 2011, 11 years, that is where that came from, under reconsideration it was actually Oct 10 when it was cancelled, so just over ten years.
Your figures may be correct, but they are presented in a way that makes the situation look better than other sources suggest, as much as we barter over a year or so, it was still massively over time, over cost, and for under half the aircraft delivered than envisaged.
When you say that the first one was handed over in March 2010, that was a service ready aircraft ready for use?
What about the pausing and grounding during flight testing on safety grounds, and the reports that the aircraft may have still struggled to have met the customers operational & safety clearances?

At the end of the day my personal belief (and has been since the mid ’90s) is that this was a bad idea to convert old handbuilt airframes using substantial modern engineered parts, that the whole thing smacked of mismanagement within BAE and upper MoD procurement, and that the end result was an expensive folly that arrived in an era when justification of such a costly programme was dificult, and it that had to be cancelled by whoever was in power.

It was already 11 years late.

Where does 11 years come from? Do you make it up?

The original 1996 program had the first A/C handover in Dec 2001. PA4 was handed over in March 2010, i.e. 8 years and 3-4 months late.

A few dates for you to think about;-

Program as proposed in 1996 Contract (all dates were assumed to be end of month);-
Contract award Nov 1996, Preliminary Design complete June 1997, Detail design complete Dec 1997, Wing delivered to final assembly (Hurn) June 1999, Wing installed to Fuse Aug 1999, Power on (i.e. the start of pre flight testing Oct 1999), First Flight Feb 2000, Release for training Sept 2001, First A/C delivery Dec 2001, First Squadron May 2003, last A/C of 21 delivered June 2006

Program as Achieved;-
Contract award Nov 1996, Preliminary Design complete 28 Dec 1997, Detail design complete 28 Feb 2000, Wing arrived at Woodford 21 Aug 2000, Wing installation on Fuse completed 26 Oct 2000, Power on (i.e. the start of pre flight testing) Oct 2003*, First Flight 24 Aug 2004, Release for training 2009, First A/C delivery March 2010, First Squadron predicted for 2012, last A/C of 9 delivered ?

*A sham power on was claimed on the 25 Sept 2002 but this was not in essences the real start of the pre –flight testing.

Note also that in the original plan the time between wing delivery to final assembly and its finished of installation was predicted at 62 days. In reality it took just 59 days…………..considering this is a very rare example something on MRA4 happening ahead of schedule its galling that so many people believe the utter tosh in the Telegraph about this being the most significant failure of the whole project! ………there is a tale behind why this story was leaked by BAESYSTEMS but its getting late.