Seafire population + 1

RN Seafire Serial Numbers

880

You don’t say what the sources of your ‘production details’ are?

It won’t be SW2_5 as there was no such batch. The third production batch of Seafire F.XVs, however, began with SW781 and therefore the only two possible contenders are SW785 and SW795. Of these only SW785 seems likely as there is little known about it (SW795, on the other hand, is known to have served exclusively in the UK). Having been delivered to 33 MU at RAF Lyneham in June 1945 it is next recorded being in store at Trincomalee in January 1946. This would fit in with it being possibly issued to 880 NAS for service in the 8th CAG aboard Implacable in the waters off Australia, the incident presumably being between June and September and leading to it being dropped off at Trincomalee when the carrier returned home soon after VJ Day.

The other serials you mention can be fairly easily worked out, but it takes a bit of time and lateral thinking. You don’t mention what your father’s name was, and without that I can’t determine whether his logbook has ever been seen by the Fleet Air Arm Museum, but if not perhaps you might like to consider allowing them to borrow it for copying (or indeed submit a photocopy of it yourself for their records)? It is by interpretation of such documents that we have, over many years, managed to piece together the individual airframe histories for all Fleet Air Arm aircraft, and no matter how seemingly ‘routine’ many of the entries may appear, in the right hands they can unlock many hitherto unsolved details that might otherwise be lost to posterity.

Lee

Lee, I think I saw you today, if you were in an office at the FAA Museum at Yeovilton this morning looking through a log book.

I gave my father’s log book and loads of photos to Tom Langham and a lady, so all the information you asked for about Seafire numbers should be there close to you.

Seafire XV Pilot’s Notes

I have today donated my father’s Seafire XV Pilot’s Notes, the manual on how to fly the Seafire XV from 1945, to the Fleet Air Arm Museum in Yeovilton, along with my father’s log book, detailing all his flights in 1944/5 in 880 Squadron, as they are writing a huge book detailing everything about Fleet Air Arm WWII pilots etc.

I have also lent them all my WWII photos to copy as they wish, (including two of Seafires crash landing on USS Essex) so that lots of my father’s photos can be saved for posterity, and used to help record the history of Seafires 1944/5.

I still have scans of the Pilot’s Manual if anyone wants any information, included the “rocket assisted take-off !!!”.

You can get right up close to the Yeovilton Seafire XVII in the museum. I saw it fly over the Church on the Isle of Wight last year for the 880 Squadron Leader Mike Crosley’s (DSC and Bar) memorial service. They flew it over from Yeovilton as a tribute to him.

Aircraft Carrier Deck Story

Thanks for that 880Squadron. I’ll bet your deck commander mate has a lot of stories to tell.

The deck commander Bill Christiansen is 91 or 92 so his memory is failing, but I did hear from the man in charge of the two gun emplacements just below where the planes land, about the two Seafires landing on the USS Essex.

Apparently when they were called in to land, there was a general announcement made over the ship’s tannoy system advising them that two Royal Navy Seafires were about to land, inviting all those not on watch to come up to deck to see them, hence rather a large number of people on the “island” in my photo of the Seafire in the barrier. A radio operator Joe Duermit told me the two Seafires overflew the deck before peeling off to land, and the sound of the RR engines was music to their ears, quite different from the American radial engines.

The sailor in charge of the two guns, Bob Miller, at the stern of the ship, was told three time, in no uncertain terms, that these were friendly planes, and not to shoot them down. As the engine sounds were quite different, and as the plane profiles were quite different, they would be identified as non US Navy planes, and possibly Japanese Kamikazis trying to sneak in pretending to land, and then to crash into the deck. He later became a High Court Judge, and he told me that he supplied my father with clean clothing, fruit, shaving gear etc. Both Royal Navy pilots were treated with great hospitality, while elsewhere the Japanese were preparing to surrender.

Thanks for that 880Squadron. I’ll bet your deck commander mate has a lot of stories to tell.

Many thanks again for the photos 880, they are lovely and clear.
I’m a bit of a Gannet fan, so I will have to catch up with you via PM about that!
Was the ditched Gannet WN427?

deck crew

Excellent photo and great details 880 Squadron.

Something I hadn’t thought about till I looked at your photo, did the WWII US Navy carrier deck crew wear the colour coded clothing like modern carriers do, so they are easily recognisable as to what they are doing on the deck? There seems to be an array of uniform colours. Also, did the WWII Royal Navy deck crew also do this?

The deck commander of the USS Essex says yes they had different colours (colors!), but they worked together as teams, and it was not strictly enforced.

Serial Numbers

880

You don’t say what the sources of your ‘production details’ are?

It won’t be SW2_5 as there was no such batch. The third production batch of Seafire F.XVs, however, began with SW781 and therefore the only two possible contenders are SW785 and SW795. Of these only SW785 seems likely as there is little known about it (SW795, on the other hand, is known to have served exclusively in the UK). Having been delivered to 33 MU at RAF Lyneham in June 1945 it is next recorded being in store at Trincomalee in January 1946. This would fit in with it being possibly issued to 880 NAS for service in the 8th CAG aboard Implacable in the waters off Australia, the incident presumably being between June and September and leading to it being dropped off at Trincomalee when the carrier returned home soon after VJ Day.

The other serials you mention can be fairly easily worked out, but it takes a bit of time and lateral thinking. You don’t mention what your father’s name was, and without that I can’t determine whether his logbook has ever been seen by the Fleet Air Arm Museum, but if not perhaps you might like to consider allowing them to borrow it for copying (or indeed submit a photocopy of it yourself for their records)? It is by interpretation of such documents that we have, over many years, managed to piece together the individual airframe histories for all Fleet Air Arm aircraft, and no matter how seemingly ‘routine’ many of the entries may appear, in the right hands they can unlock many hitherto unsolved details that might otherwise be lost to posterity.

Lee

This is where I have got my production serial numbers from.

http://www.spitfires.ukf.net/

I doubt very much anyone has seen my father’s log book since 1955 when he gave up flying when he parked a Gannet in Lough Neagh. His log book covers the period 1944-early 1946 for Spitfires and Seafires. If anyone wants to copy it, put them in touch with me. I also have some strange instruments and computers which may be of some use to the Fleet Air Arm museum, plus the Pilots book for a Seafire XV which they can copy.

There is a lot of information in Mike Crosley’s book “So they gave me a Seafire” in which my father Mike Banyard featured and contributed photos.

I completely agree with that Lee, logbooks are invaluable to researchers in piecing together the history of particular airframes. I have been doing it with several aircraft including ones they are still around in museums today. It’s really fascinating what you find in logbooks actually.

880

You don’t say what the sources of your ‘production details’ are?

It won’t be SW2_5 as there was no such batch. The third production batch of Seafire F.XVs, however, began with SW781 and therefore the only two possible contenders are SW785 and SW795. Of these only SW785 seems likely as there is little known about it (SW795, on the other hand, is known to have served exclusively in the UK). Having been delivered to 33 MU at RAF Lyneham in June 1945 it is next recorded being in store at Trincomalee in January 1946. This would fit in with it being possibly issued to 880 NAS for service in the 8th CAG aboard Implacable in the waters off Australia, the incident presumably being between June and September and leading to it being dropped off at Trincomalee when the carrier returned home soon after VJ Day.

The other serials you mention can be fairly easily worked out, but it takes a bit of time and lateral thinking. You don’t mention what your father’s name was, and without that I can’t determine whether his logbook has ever been seen by the Fleet Air Arm Museum, but if not perhaps you might like to consider allowing them to borrow it for copying (or indeed submit a photocopy of it yourself for their records)? It is by interpretation of such documents that we have, over many years, managed to piece together the individual airframe histories for all Fleet Air Arm aircraft, and no matter how seemingly ‘routine’ many of the entries may appear, in the right hands they can unlock many hitherto unsolved details that might otherwise be lost to posterity.

Lee

Serial numbers

880

The numbers are codes/callsigns. But down by the tail, beneath the ROYAL NAVY is the airframe serial. It is the serial I’m interested in, coupled with the code/callsign.

I’m in the process of fully updating the Air-Britain book “Fleet Air Arm Aircraft 1939 to 1945” (probably the source you refer to) for reprinting in a few years’ time, and am always looking for photos such as these which help to fill gaps in our existing knowledge.

To that end can you confirm what serial the aircraft marked ‘114/N’ is in the photo you posted, please?

Lee

I have examined another photo of this plane closely with a magnifying glass and seem to make out SW 7?? below ROYAL NAVY just behind the first 1 of the 11. The 7 could be a 2. The last number could be a 5.

I cannot relate this number to those in the Spitfire/Seafire production details.

I only have three numbers in my father’s log book to work out which plane he was flying. Initially he did put NN or PP in the book, but that soon got droped for just 3 numbers e.g. 256, 922, 542, 514, 305, 353, 953, 622, 476, 458, 597, and many more.

I believe the numbers on the sides of the fuselage were squadron numbers. I have a list of all Spitfires and Seafires ever produced and their histories, which gives the numbers PR, NN, etc, but there appears to be no relationship between those numbers, and the fuselage numbers.

880

The numbers are codes/callsigns. But down by the tail, beneath the ROYAL NAVY is the airframe serial. It is the serial I’m interested in, coupled with the code/callsign.

I’m in the process of fully updating the Air-Britain book “Fleet Air Arm Aircraft 1939 to 1945” (probably the source you refer to) for reprinting in a few years’ time, and am always looking for photos such as these which help to fill gaps in our existing knowledge.

To that end can you confirm what serial the aircraft marked ‘114/N’ is in the photo you posted, please?

Lee

More Seafire XV photos from WWII

My other photos are too big to download. I am sorry these are small, but in WWII, I presume photographic supplies were very limited.

I am not certain the cockpit interior is of a Seafire XV, as there is a nameplate saying North American something which is hard to read.

Marvellous photos. I just love this, thanks for posting.

In the photo here:
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=190340&d=1290339716

The seafire seems to have a lighter coloured tailfin than the rudder, around the finflash, and it looks like that colour might also be on the horisontal stabilisers. Could this perhaps be yellow, as seen on the Sea Hurricane at Old Warden maybe? The Sea Hurricane had also served on No. 880 Squadron so was it perhaps squadron colours?

That’s a super photo there 880squadron of the Seafire bellied in on the deck.

Are you in tocuh with any deck crew members from any carriers who might live in New Zealand? In my filming of Fleet Air Arm veterans for the film project I’m working on (New Zealanders in the Fleet Air Arm) I have only found one deck officer who was on radars on Illustrious, whereas I have interviewed around 20 plus flyers. I’d love to find some more kiwi deck crew workers from carriers, or at least ex-pat Brits who live here in NZ now.

Unfortunately I don’t have any contact with crew of either Implacable or Indefatigable which were the only carriers operating Seafire XV’s.

Squadron Numbers

Any chance you could also confirm from the photos what the aircraft serials are? I’ve just done a search through our records and can’t find an aircraft coded ‘114/N’ which means that, although we most probably have details of the incident shown in this particular photo, we don’t appear to have a serial/code tie-up – so often only achievable through contemporary photographs.

Love to see the other photos!

Lee

I believe the numbers on the sides of the fuselage were squadron numbers. I have a list of all Spitfires and Seafires ever produced and their histories, which gives the numbers PR, NN, etc, but there appears to be no relationship between those numbers, and the fuselage numbers.

I will try to upload some more photos below.

Success. Photos 3 and 4 on the top row are of my father. 3 is PR294 landing on the USS Essex at 07.44 9-8-45. Photo 4 shows he did make a proper landing in his 68 deck landings. Photo 2 is taken in Sydney Harbour of the Implacable. Photo 1 is of 880 and 801 Squadrons lined up in Sydney Harbour on Implacable. Bottom row photo 1 shows 2 barriers up for deck landings.

I believe 11-2 etc were 880 squadron, and 13-8 etc were 801 squadron.

That’s a super photo there 880squadron of the Seafire bellied in on the deck.

Are you in tocuh with any deck crew members from any carriers who might live in New Zealand? In my filming of Fleet Air Arm veterans for the film project I’m working on (New Zealanders in the Fleet Air Arm) I have only found one deck officer who was on radars on Illustrious, whereas I have interviewed around 20 plus flyers. I’d love to find some more kiwi deck crew workers from carriers, or at least ex-pat Brits who live here in NZ now.

Any chance you could also confirm from the photos what the aircraft serials are? I’ve just done a search through our records and can’t find an aircraft coded ‘114/N’ which means that, although we most probably have details of the incident shown in this particular photo, we don’t appear to have a serial/code tie-up – so often only achievable through contemporary photographs.

Love to see the other photos!

Lee

HMS Implacable deck crew and a Seafire XV

Hopefully, this photo will appear here. If successful, I will try to post more.

I have about 12 more which should prove of interest, of Seafire XV’s and the Implacable. Should I post them here?

Excellent photo and great details 880 Squadron.

Something I hadn’t thought about till I looked at your photo, did the WWII US Navy carrier deck crew wear the colour coded clothing like modern carriers do, so they are easily recognisable as to what they are doing on the deck? There seems to be an array of uniform colours. Also, did the WWII Royal Navy deck crew also do this?

Good question. I am still in touch with the WWII crew of the USS Essex so I will ask. My main contact is in California and therefore many hours behind. I will ask and let you know soon. Ironically I have no contacts with the Implacable crew, but several deck photos of wrecks and deck drew. The RN seem to have different shades of grey on a photo with about 24 getting a Seafire out of the barrier.

If someone can tell me how to upload bigger photos, I can post heaps more, but my attempts have been greeted with “upload of file failed”. I have one of the Implacable with the entire collection of 44 Seafires all lined up going through Sydney Harbour which is worth savouring.

Excellent photo and great details 880 Squadron.

Something I hadn’t thought about till I looked at your photo, did the WWII US Navy carrier deck crew wear the colour coded clothing like modern carriers do, so they are easily recognisable as to what they are doing on the deck? There seems to be an array of uniform colours. Also, did the WWII Royal Navy deck crew also do this?