Severodvinsk SSN !!

This is what probably Garry is referring to , Its known TOPAZ , I think 2 of these were sold to US in early 90’s

As far as I know the range is 120km in the low low profile. Against soft targets a high altitude flight profile could certainly extend this and it might be even be possible to program its engines throttle settings so that it can fly slower over a longer range for unprotected targets like civilian shipping or perhaps some ground targets if a particular land attack version is built.

Thats Interesting , So if low-low is 120 KM , Hi-LO or Hi-HI-LO 150-160 KM is probably achieveable and same can be done with lesser speed .

Is any one aware of the kind of materials(steel/alloys ) the Russian use for sun construction , the US uses HY-80/100 for sub construction , do russian use smilar materials , I understand that Akula can dive as deep as 600 meteres , Sev could be higher so probably new materials ???

Garry , I seem to recollect having a look at that thread , Those short range variant was meant for those Border Patrol Guards IIRC , Do you have any information as to what is the status of Uranium Missile , did they went ahead with it , or was it just a proposal , Did they test and fielded one of those , I remember some time back I had read , there were plans to replace Uran Missile on delhi with uranium , never heard any thing after that.

Sorry, I haven’t heard anything at all. But considering the Uran entered service in the mid 80s on “Export” ships that didn’t require capabilities like engageing US carrier groups there has been plenty of time to improve it.

Also what is the range of Uran missile is it 130 Km as is officially said , I remember a senior official of a Naval Ship building dock saying to me as 160 Km , That was the only time I heard any one claiming those range for URAN . What could be the real ranges

As far as I know the range is 120km in the low low profile. Against soft targets a high altitude flight profile could certainly extend this and it might be even be possible to program its engines throttle settings so that it can fly slower over a longer range for unprotected targets like civilian shipping or perhaps some ground targets if a particular land attack version is built.

can u give any info abt the smaller reactors that the Russians have on their special purpose submarines …..

I have heard of closed power systems the Soviets developed for use in space with the purpose of powering equipment on other planets or in space. Such systems used its cooling water to heat the craft or enclosure if it was on a planet or moon, which greatly reduced power requirements. (obviously heating requires quite a bit of energy… using the cooling system removes a byproduct and solves a problem in one go). Such systems were not powerful enough for sub propulsion I don’t think… one described as a 1 x 1 x 4m module that generated 100kW and could operate for 13 years at that output.

so guys any one got deatils abt the N-reactor going into Sevrodvinsk class?? ….or any pic/more info other than the – 190MW – on the workhorse of the Russian N-subs.

Austin,

can i expect some scans of the article that mentioned abt mono-block reactors being supplied to India for her ATV by Russia ?

Garry,

can u give any info abt the smaller reactors that the Russians have on their special purpose submarines …..

Garry , I seem to recollect having a look at that thread , Those short range variant was meant for those Border Patrol Guards IIRC , Do you have any information as to what is the status of Uranium Missile , did they went ahead with it , or was it just a proposal , Did they test and fielded one of those , I remember some time back I had read , there were plans to replace Uran Missile on delhi with uranium , never heard any thing after that.

Also what is the range of Uran missile is it 130 Km as is officially said , I remember a senior official of a Naval Ship building dock saying to me as 160 Km , That was the only time I heard any one claiming those range for URAN . What could be the real ranges

Could you describe the various sensors of Onyx ,Besides Radar what other sensors were they using, Besides did they have similar ranges as Bhramos or were of longer range ones.

Sorry, the article just said multisensor. and didn’t contain details.

What I was trying to point out as to how KH-35 (ss-n-25) could evolve , Although missile of smiliar ranges and capability do exist ,

Have you seen that thread about what appears to be a mini Uran? About 360kg launch weight with a 40km range and I would guess about a 50kg warhead?
Also I read somewhere that the uran uses a MMW band radar to identify and select the target. I am guessing that could be used against land targets too with a few modifications.

ts was described as a Onyx that was to be tested this year (2005) with a multi sensor targeting system for land targets.

Could you describe the various sensors of Onyx ,Besides Radar what other sensors were they using, Besides did they have similar ranges as Bhramos or were of longer range ones.

The Russian SLAM and SLAM-ER entered service in about 1982 and about 1989 respectively. (AS-13 KINGBOLT and AS-18 KAZOO).

What I was trying to point out as to how KH-35 (ss-n-25) could evolve , Although missile of smiliar ranges and capability do exist , but a sea launched variant of SS-N-25 with a lighter warhead ( say 100 kg ) and longer range ( 300 KM) would do a lot good when trying to hit lightly defended costal targets.Imagine such category of Light Land Attack variant being carried by less expensive ships like corvett or Missile boat , specially in Indian Context , where the whole pak naval armada exist at Karachi harbour.

Garry are you talking about Bhramos Land Attack test.

I don’t think so. There was a defence exhibition (I think IDEX 2004 or something) that had exhibits of various weapons and one was of a Yakhont in an air launched version wiht a rear body extension and its was described as a Onyx that was to be tested this year (2005) with a multi sensor targeting system for land targets.

I’d rather have the 220km Klub on anyship than a 300 km Yakhont. The Alfa is a much better weapon to tackle Carrier Groups, and not only that but its smaller and lighter=more can be carried.

Personally I’d go for variety. A couple of high speed missiles like Yakhont to tie up the defences and a few Clubs sneaking in from an unexpected direction. Especially if there are enough platforms for multiple waves.

If one looks at Harpoon evolution , There is SLAM and SLAM-ER variant (Land Attack/IIR ) and its an indication as to how URAN can evolve , Although Potential exist , it depends on the end user requirement and an optimum solution to that requirement.

The Russian SLAM and SLAM-ER entered service in about 1982 and about 1989 respectively. (AS-13 KINGBOLT and AS-18 KAZOO).

Blackcat,

Brahmos/Yakohant missile was designed keeping in mind the wost case scenerio , Detected as Soon as Launched , which gives the “being attacked” ship time to take countermeasures Hard and Soft , Its in this scenario that PJ-10 should achieve a sucessfull kill or atleast high rate of kill , Solution was Supersonic Speed , Agility , Low and High profile traj , Lethal (KE + Warhead ) kill , also LO character with the application of RAM materials .

No doubt Klub gives flexibility , in the sense it can be launched from subs through the 533 mm Torp Tubes , sustained Low -Low Traj , KE dart ( in case of AShM Variant ) and Accurate navigation and Large Warhead ( 400 KG ) in case of land attack variant , The only difference being that in case of scenario where it is detected as soon as launched , the defending ship will have more time to react and hence better ( not always ) chance to survive.

Both this missile have a place in the IN and as such judiciously used as per the situation , need less to say that the Klub launcher is capable of carrying the Brahmos missile which gives more flexibility.

SS-N-25 is a good missile , although with a lighter warhead , but with the same features as that of Harpoon Block 1C , Uranium was being proposed to IN as a long range land attack variant , but I have no idea what happened after it , or was it superceeded by Klub , If one looks at Harpoon evolution , There is SLAM and SLAM-ER variant (Land Attack/IIR ) and its an indication as to how URAN can evolve , Although Potential exist , it depends on the end user requirement and an optimum solution to that requirement.

Although PJ-10 is offered fo export and although countries like Malayasia , UAE has express interest , but IMHO it would be exported very soon considering large requirement from Internal User and sensitivity of the technology.

Austin,

Surely PJ-10 is a leathal one, but we need lighter missile which is also leathel as the PJ-10 at the final stage for lighter tonnage ships and subs which don have VLS. And thats what Klub family fill-in very neatly. We cannot do away with that missile and ned to have that too included in the joint development and in house programe.

Also, if we take a good look at the sub-sonic land attack variant, we can see its the smallest, now think what we can enlarge it in sise to that of 3m-54e ???…. it wud most likely mean largr fuel , which translate into say a very long range land-attack cruise missile, say 1000+Km. And I very much think that range is possible from a developemt of the land-attack variant.

Also, I am of the view that we are not doing good with only investing in PJ-10, I’d say Brahmos Aerospace shud rather invest in development and marketing of Klub family and the Uran(ium) so that we have 3 missiles to market…… and if u ask me if we sud sell PJ-10 missiles to other countries, my reply wud be only NEGATIVE, if its been under mine control, it wud have been – NEVER.

rather we shud concentrate on marketing a 290Km Uranim, as sub-sonic missiles too have their efficiency and the Klub series (on to those very trusted) Personally i’m not in favour for marketing these outside, even if that may earn us good amount, the cutoff shud be Klub family at the Extreme end.

I’d rather have the 220km Klub on anyship than a 300 km Yakhont. The Alfa is a much better weapon to tackle Carrier Groups, and not only that but its smaller and lighter=more can be carried.

Not to sure on that , The Brahmos/Yakohant Supersonic Missile is based on the concept that as soon as the AShM is launched it will be detected by the enemy ship , and will try to take effective counter-measures, Long Range SAM, Short Range SAM, Guns/CIWS etc both Soft Kill and Hard Kill will be used to best Destroy, Avoid/Decoy the AShM missile .

By Nature being supersonic( less reaction time ) , with most of the features of subsonic missile like sea skimming capability , some what stealth by RAM coating and having a speed of Mach-2.8 which makes it 7-8 times more lethal in destoying a target as compared to subsonic missile etc the Brahmos is much better in High Threat Environment , like trying to make a kill against CBG when AWACS and Fighter covers are available to portect it.

The Klub/ALFA is good for low to medium threat environment , against long range target , carries a larger warhead , I liked the concept of Klub with Supersonic Dart , good concept and except for extereme high threat environment , should have a good chance of Blowing a Capital Ship.

I’d rather have the 220km Klub on anyship than a 300 km Yakhont. The Alfa is a much better weapon to tackle Carrier Groups, and not only that but its smaller and lighter=more can be carried.

Blackcat ,

What you are saying could be right, PJ-10 design could form the basis of future long range supersonic cruise missile , I am sure some form of design might exist on the drawing board to replace the Granit , I dont know if that design will be based on PJ-10 or a new design.

Irrespective if russian continues with the design or not, But for India its a great missile to build upon , I did tried to ask the CEO of Brahmos Dr A Sivathanu Pillai about future variants at ae05 but he was non-commital, But since we have the technology for a 300 km missile , what prevents us fom redesigning it to a 600-800 Km cruise missle, One more thing Dr A Sivathanu Pillai told me that all the Kills and test conducted ( there was a video running of Brahmos showing the missile hitting a Ship and Land Targets ) were without the warhead , And I could see the Target ship totally damaged just by the Impact of KE , He told me with a warhead it would break the ship in to two halves.

Austin,

well when i mentioned the replacement of Granits by Yakhonts/PJ-10, what i was intending to say was that this cud be the one that might find future as a standard weapon with Russian Navy (with longer range) , as its a rather smaller and lighter weapon, but with almost same level of leathality as the Granits.

Now changing over to PJ-10 means that the carrier (meant ships) can be small in size and can be done away with bulky subs like Oscar and wud be able to carry the same amount on smaller subs like the Sevrodvinsk class.

Thanks BlackCat , Protonriver has a huge collection of pics , and in all likelyhood more will be uploaded.

The Russian Variant of PJ-10 Bhramos is Yakohant , Bhramos is derived from Yakohant with Indian Guidance , elecronics etc , Now To the best of my knowledge Yakohant is being developed to replace SS-N-22 Sunburn , All though universal in nature ( Sea, Land,Air ) like the Klub Family , with a claimed range of 300 KM(hi-lo profile ) with a 300 KG warhead ,For a LOW-LOW profile it has a range of ( 120 km ) now any increase in range will come at the cost of reducing the warhead .

I am not too sure that a variant of Yakohant is being developed to replace the Granit , Although I read it , that the Russian Yahohant has a Dual Mode Guidance ( Radar/EO/IIR ) , Granit as it stands today is a very effective missile specially (larger warhead and co-operative engagement cap ) against CBG and with Improved Guidance should serve more time with the Russian navy.

Any Granit Replacament will have more or less Similar Range/Warhead with the primary goal or deterring CBG with perhaps a land attack capability , Yakohant falls in a different category , lesser range and lighter warhead , Yakohant will replace the Sunburn and Similar Missile in the Russian navy IMHO.

The Sev can carry total of 24 Yakohant , in 8 missile cell , each cell capable of carrying 3 missile , and It will be fixed VLS Tube , so no-reloading till subs are ashore.

what about the kolos (and in which is based kolos )

Are Kolos the same system capable of trailing subs long after they have left the area , by tracing their wake , I think that the unique system on Russian Subs so called Non-Acoustic Mean of detection . I think Sev should have the same comprehensive sonar suite as any ultramodern western/US subs have .
Do we have any more info on Kolos ??

though there is a land attack version currently being developed and flight tested this year

Garry are you talking about Bhramos Land Attack test.

well, what kind of pump use the trafalgar, seawolf, the kilo pump is an centrifuge pump????, for me the sonar is an unefficient detection sistem (for better performance you must dive deeper no matter if is spherical etc…), what about other sistems???? what about the kolos (and in which is based kolos 😀 )???

Austin,

BTW great pics of Aero India from u man…. keep up the good work…..

Garry,

I think, the Russian variant of PJ-10 but with a greater range (like 550Km) will finally replace the Granit as the CBG stike weapon. Maybe they are moving in that direction, for a smaller, lighter but very effective weapon. And 8 of these in the Severodvinsk class would be enough to give a bloody blow to any CBGs.

Interesting post. It mentions both the Yakhont antiship missile, though there is a land attack version currently being developed and flight tested this year. It also mentions Kh-101 cruise missiles too.

Since with AKula-2 , The Russian have surpassed the US Improved LosAngeles Class noise levels(more quiter ) , I would Expect(Logically) Severodvinsk to have the following characteristics , when compared to its closest competator US SeaWolf .

* Much Reduced Noise Level Compared to Akula-2 class , and more or less comparable to the SeaWolf Class if not better

* Use Of PumpJet Propulsion System , As compared to 8 Blade Skewed Propeller, They have already tested such system on a Kilo .

* A comprehensive Sonar Suite which could include a Spherical Bow Sonar, Active/Passive Low Frequency Sonar and Towed Sonars.And an Integrated Escape Hatch , or atleast provide crew safety and escape system better then they current submarines.

* Use Of Mono Block Nuclear Reactor , Use Of Special Alloys and Steel to provide a Diving Depth of 800 meteres , since Akula-2 can dive as deep as 600 m .

* Ability To Fire VLS Crusie Missile , As also capability to fire the Modern KH-101 (5000 Km) range cruise missile , Besides Modern Torpedo , Flexible Enough to be used by SF for special missions and also a comphrensive Electronics for Intelligence Gathering Capability.

If you understand russian:http://www.from-ua.com/technology/420a204e67903/

I have converted the above text to english, Thanks to babelfish.

Risen from the scrap

On the end of flight of bylogo might Russia on 21 December, 1993, placed the new multipurpose nuclear-powered submarine of the 4th generation of project…

… “Yasen'”, which was called “Severodvinsk”. On 2 November, 1996, of federaly timidly made one additional “laying- contemporary” – the rocket cruising submarine of the project Of “borey” obtained name “Yuri dolgorukiy”.

Dispatch years, building atearene was converted into the the hopeless of dolgostroy. But “voyenka” does not suffer idle times, and life gradually began to return to the scientific and industrial complex of atomic shipbuilding. After obtaining from the budget the necessary means, both APL forsirovanno now finish building. Toward the end of this year or in the beginning of the following they must become to standby alert.

Multipurpose APL Of “severodvinsk”. The length overall – 120,0 m. width – 15 m. displacement (complete) – 11800 m cube. Total submerged speed – 31 knots. (55,8 km/h). Crew – 85 people. Housing is made from special alloy high-strength steel. The crew safety in the emergencies is ensured by the floating up rescue camera. According to the data of Russian sources, on podplave “is used low-noise water jet”.

In the opinion of American experts, given in the report to known Norwegian “ecological” organization “belluna”, the usovershenstvovannyy version Of “severodvinska” (Americans carry this APL already to the fifth generation) will have a noisiness of less than even “quiet” today state submarine itself by “SI Wolf”.

Armament – 24 antiship medium-range rockets of the type “onyx”, which are located in eight launching towers on three in each mine, cruise missile (KR) for the destruction coast targets at a distance of more than 5000 km KR are capable of bearing nuclear warheads.

In the center section of the housing are located by 650- mm and 533- mm the torpedo tubes, the detonating torpedoes, remote-controlled and which home on the wake track, and also the antiship cruise missiles of the last generation Of zm-shchyae. Raisin of antiship KR of zm-shchyae – presence of two steps. The first – march solid-propellant subsonic (M 0,8), the second – is the supersonic (Me) combat, started at removal from purpose on the order of 20 km, that also makes it practically invulnerable for PVO – AIR DEFENSE of ships. Mass of warhead – 200 – 300 kg (depending on modification).

It is planned to 2010 to place seven universal destroyers of submarines and ships on the duty. Equipped high-precision unobtrusive KR, high-speed and noiseless APL of the type “severodvinsk” will become also the basis of the nonnuclear restraining of enemy.

APL of strategic designation “Yuri dolgorukiy”. The length of the cruising submarine – is 170 m, width – 13,5 m, full load displacement – 24 thousand cu. m, maximum submersion depth – 450 m, independence – 100 days, crew – 130 man. Total underwater speed – 29 knots. (52 km/h). Russian designers promise, that this cruising submarine will be lowest-noise podplavom in the world.

It is necessary to say that the technical characteristics of submarine and especially information on the armament given in the open press bear contradictory nature, which can be explained as by the secrecy of development, so by the modernization of project, which goes directly on the motion of production.

On the filtered fragmentary information, with the development of the rocket system of strategic designation for APL deals the famous Moscow institute of heat engineering (MIT), which already created great complexes “poplar”, “Poplar- M”, the “pioneer”.

On the same information, new rocket system for “YUD” – “bulava-e0”, with the divided warhead – is to a considerable degree the modification of the intercontinental rocket of ground-based basing “Poplar- M”. If this is so, then commentaries on the quality of armament are superfluous. APL of the type “YUD” must replace the strategic submarines of a series “typhoon”.

For which being revived Russia vbukhivayet hundreds of million dollars to such “toys”, if, for example, strategists with rural mentality speak that the presence of ultimate weapon does not save from the economic and social wrangles. Can, and thus. However, strong kulaks ensure to Russia the main thing – possibility to determine the historical fate of its civilization without the caution to the military pressure from without.

But, I’d love to see this as the final one and also our own ATV.

AMEN

the russians never will finish that sub, the pump is based in arquimades helix???, that is the standar pump design(for the trafalgar-seawolf)???

well I don think the pump jet one is gonna be the one as it don have the main feature which can be surely expected of the Severodvinsk class, ie, the bow sonar, and thats coz I can still see the torpedo tubes in there.

The earlier one cud be near or the actual as u can see the torpedo tubes almost under the conning tower.

But, I’d love to see this as the final one and also our own ATV.