Shackleton Carrier Landing Myth!

Mo, Any chance of telling why WG555 was the fastest?

Because Mo was flying it!:)

It’s been often said that minute variances in how aircraft are put together can make them good or bad to handle; it seems to have some truth.

Possibly WG555 was a fortunate aircraft where everything added up the right way to make a good ‘un!

Regards,

Rich

richw_82

Not too sure, she was always in good trim and she was very easy to handle.
I heard many comments about her performance.
My favourite.

Mo

Mo,

Any chance of telling why WG555 was the fastest?

Rich

Hi All

It seems to getting complicated – so I revert to the old logbook again. Please remember that these were countersigned each months by world class pedants and were treated as mid term exams.
My Mark I time – from 1955 to 1962 had entries that showed only MR1 and GR1; depending on the current Flight Commander.
After we picked up WG555 “Triple Nickel” (accepted as the fastest Shackleton Ever), there followed six months of entries that differentiated between MkII and MkIIc to show if you were qualified on type.
At this stage, I think that the ‘c’ eventually ended up as Phase 1 – a classification I never heard in the rest of my time until 1966.
I had a rush posting as a Cat ‘T’ instructor to 205/209 Squadron to convert Sigs and AEOs onto the new Avionics fit. An unnecessary rush as the first MkII – a MkIIc, did not arrive on 205 until months before I was posted back to 210 at BK.
For the next four years my logbook entries were MkIIc or GRIIc until leaving the Squadron.
The MkIIc received the advaced avioncs at the same time as the Mk3 was being upgraded – so that was the START of the Phase2.
First prize of a 7 hour flight in a Bristol Frightener with a leaky carboy of Sulphuric acid (another story) to the first one to say “I can understand that”

Mo

It is definately an official designation (like Mo suggests) as it appears in a allocated designations list for British aircraft that I have, but you could be correct in that it was in short term use.
It seems to be used between some Mk.3 improvements that were embodied on in service Mk.2s, before the Phase I updates were introduced, and I wonder if the C desgnation was dropped when the aircraft became Phase I standard.
Looking at the short time frame that this all occured (as you know some Mk.3s were delivered as Phase Is) I would think that only a few airframes would have been Cs?

I did a small history on WL795 in the late 80s, using info from Chris Ashworth and what we had from log books, and that is where I found MR.2C – a long time before t’internet and most of the books that are out.

MR.2C does appear in some books, definately in the John Chatres book I was reading last night!

PS was beginning to wish I hadn’t mentioned 2.C, but actually quite interesting trying to pin down what it was!

I have been looking into this 2C designation and can find no documentary evidence for it. The various books written on the Shackleton do not not mention a 2C variiant. In the past I have looked at a number of F700’s and there is no sign of that designation there either. It may be that it was a local designation used to identify the latest standard aircraft where there was a mix of airframes at different mod states. It was very common until the last years to have these different mod states on any squadron/unit. I certainly worked on a great number of Shacks at various times both on the line and in the hanger and do not recall seeing this in any log books or on job cards. Not saying it didn’t exist, just that it may not have been an official mark. I will get a couple of F78’s and see if it shows on them.

Hi Mo, came to the same conclusion myself yesterday, the MR.2 received some MR.3 equipment when that newer aircraft came into service, this included the ASV.21 and the type was redesignated MR.2C.
This appears to be prior to any Phase I updates, ie an itermediate update?

Hi Mo

I just had a quick look at your website and liked it. If you ever want to come and see the Jaguar or my other modern cockpit in Melbourne send me a PM one day.

Cheers Paul

Hi Nashio

I think it boils down to:

First MkII = Phase 1

MkIIc = Conversion to new Avionics – Phase 2

MkII Phase 3 = Coversion to MkIII innards.

Mo

Hi Mo, Id spoken to Pagen earlier about this and he said exactly the same thing 🙂 Interesting though, it could be confusing for some people!

The MkIIc first appeared in my logbook when we picked up WG555 from Langar on 4th April 1959. She was one of the first with the upgraded electronic fit – ASV21 etc.

That’s the way the management wanted it to be noted and that’s the way it had to be.

Mo

I’ve seen plenty of references to an MR.2C before too?

A quick search on PPRuNe brings up the following.

http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/111797-did-you-fly-vulcan-merged-15.html

Post #284 from PN.

‘The Carrier was the Ark, the Shack was out in FEAF. They got the carrier discrete comms and simply called up for a CCA.

The Navy reputedly thought they were going for a landing rather than an overshoot.

About 64 or 65.’

See post #1400 for Vulcan flying approach to carrier.

http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/111797-did-you-fly-vulcan-merged-70.html

See post #13 for Nimrod approach to carrier.

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/377355-navy-pilot-ad.html

‘I dont know about Shack v’s CVN but I have been on a Nimrod doing a PAR to one in the Med. I think the guys on the deck found the 100′ overshoot even more exciting than we did …’

TJ

I’m not 100% sure I have seen references to Phase III and to C, not sure if they are the same or one was an advancement on the other.
It seems odd to use C, when A and B weren’t used, but that is how I’ve always referred to them and it appears in books as that aswel.
‘795 was a C.

You mean the Phase 3?

Yes WL745 as a Phase II did wear ‘M’ betweem mid 1959 and very early 1962, so you must be right. Thought I have seen the pic before.

PM, I’ve always known some updated MR.2s as MR.2C, is this wrong?

Cheers for that guys, I was always fascinated by myths like that :diablo:

Serial number

I have the book with this photo and if I remember correctly it is in fact WL745 so there!

The original story tells of all four Griffon off and only the Vipers on, so no hydraulics, no generators, no pneumartics. Very unlikely! By the way what is a Shackleton MkIIC? Never heard of that in service, seems to have grown from forum references!:):)