Shackleton to fly

Simple case of money and logistics, if the monies there and we already know there are people who can do the work, it will get done and a Shackelton will grace our skies once again, Bae are after all a business.

I know that the Panton brothers asked BAe if they could re-spar their Lanc, but they were told no.

That’s very interesting- if true, then surely NX611’s chances of ever flying have in fact been nixed some time ago? :confused:

Shack on the way Back

Things have gone quite on this one.

With the summer only weeks and not months away if it is heading home would this not be happening in the not to distant future??

They might be waiting for warmer weather and if and when where will it be heading for.

There is talk in another thred of the Classic Flight relocation but that seems to be quite as well.

One of the DC6,s did pop over to Deenethorpe for a little stay but returned to Coventry as I think security might have been an issue there.

It would be great to see a hear the mighty growler again.

its not as simple as just changing the material, it has to act like the existing spar, otherwise the wings may not flex and just snap off!
ok, thats a bit extreme, but if you beef up one bit of structure, the loads are often moved to other parts of the aircraft, so it would have to go through the design stage, weights and stress…..which could end up getting expensive.

Yup, absolutely.
I’d say ‘exceeding original specification’ if that means different material section properties in terms of analysis and therefore would likely mean new calcs etc….very expensive and which is where DA becomes the issue.
Crikey…it’s bad enough when we have to do a similar exercise on any structural elements on building structures……lots of hoops to jump through and that is a piece of cake compared with flight certification…:eek:

But you’re using common sense! Take an extreme nonsensical example, if a World War One wooden spar was replaced by a metal tube, this would be ‘outside the original specification’. Presumably this is why the US have the successfull ‘Experimental’ category.

its not as simple as just changing the material, it has to act like the existing spar, otherwise the wings may not flex and just snap off!
ok, thats a bit extreme, but if you beef up one bit of structure, the loads are often moved to other parts of the aircraft, so it would have to go through the design stage, weights and stress…..which could end up getting expensive.

this is probably why the Vulcan repair work was a lot cheaper to do now, as they are just incorporating a mod, and not paying for the full design process.

Bypass the CAA ?

Perhaps Air Atlantique could lease it to the RAF as a centre piece of
the long long overdue Coastal Command memorial flight. Catalina,
Liberator, Sunderland, Neptune, Shack. Make a nice noise in formation.
Be lucky
David Truman
“The Avgas Dinosaur”

Like I say, I might be recalling the conversation mistakenly. We were, however, standing amidst a pile of around thirty huge pallets containing all the drawings and other associated paperwork for the type in one of the Atlantic hangers at Bagington at the time.

Moggy

I may be completely wrong, but I think I recall Mike Collett once telling me that BAe had passed design authority on the Shacks to Atlantique.

I remember BAe passing on design authority for de Havilland products to (de Havilland Aviation?)…

…except for the Mosquito! Do they know something we don’t?

They probably kept design authority for the Lancaster and Shackleton too.

WA$.

Couple of nice clips!!

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=1083141221788717407&q=shackleton

South African Shack !!

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-109477474131700726&q=shackleton

Good eh!!

Dxb Driver

A comment by a former Lancaster crew man might put a little perspective on re-sparring a shackleton,

If the wings come off during a mission, it’s a pain but at least you have the consolation of knowing that a falling bomber will do almost as much damage to the enemy as a rack of bombs will if it lands in the right place.

Now the CAA takes a dim view of such arbitrary changes to an aircrafts flying capabilities and I well recall the fuss and the costs involved that blew up when asked to make a change to a minor seat assembly from tube to plate construction to allow the attachment of an additional component, whole thing took months of trying to tease out some semblance of sense from the mess before the rule makers were convinced we knew what we were talking about and allowed us to ‘Officially’ proceed so don’t hold your breath with regards too a new Shackleton Spar assembly even if the materials are to hand it will take a very long time to convince the CAA it’s ok and if not then months of industrial scale planning to get enough stock manufactured to produce a single spar for this airframe, I guess it all depends on the willpower and stamina of those involved to see such a project through.

As long as any new material can be proven to meet or exceed the original spar material then there should be no problem other than the immense cost in doing so..!

But you’re using common sense! Take an extreme nonsensical example, if a World War One wooden spar was replaced by a metal tube, this would be ‘outside the original specification’. Presumably this is why the US have the successfull ‘Experimental’ category.

new spar material

As long as any new material can be proven to meet or exceed the original spar material then there should be no problem other than the immense cost in doing so..!

Yes new material really is not an option take for example what had to be done to get spar material for the Bolingbroke at Canadian Warplane Heritage. They had to get the original steel plant in the US to do a custom run of material to spec so that the transport authority would accept the construction of the new spar.
http://secure.warplane.com/pages/restoration_boly_update.html

I may be completely wrong, but I think I recall Mike Collett once telling me that BAe had passed design authority on the Shacks to Atlantique.

Moggy

It now seems that the CAA have stated that they will let a Shackleton fly again in the UK if the main spar is replaced, it will be either the one at Coventry or the one in America (it will be coming back to the UK this summer).

However now for the bad news the cost of the work will be about 3 million quid.

As far as the CAA is concerned I don’t think there postion has changed. As Creaking Door has said the main problem lies with Bae as design authority. They have (as I understand it) said that they will not entertain a Shackelton flying in this country due to the spars being passed there fatique life. The only way I can see the situation having changed is if Bae have said that they will co-operate should a re-spar of an airframe take place, which I dont think is anything new. I’m sure Atlantic Airmotive could carry out the work involved it just depends on how deep Mike’s pockets are as he would never see a return on his investment.

Who actually owns WL963 and WL790 mentioned in Sqn Ldr F J Cubberley’s letter in the Daily Mail?

The Shackleton Preservation Trust, Air Atlantique Classic Flight or another organisation?

This ownership status could affect the likelihood of the project even qualifying for HLF funding.

As I understand it, both Shackletons are owned by Air Atlantique, with WR963 effectively being on loan to the Shackleton Preservation Trust.

Tom.

Who actually owns WL963 and WL790 mentioned in Sqn Ldr F J Cubberley’s letter in the Daily Mail?

The Shackleton Preservation Trust, Air Atlantique Classic Flight or another organisation?

This ownership status could affect the likelihood of the project even qualifying for HLF funding.

Just curious, would she be eligble for Lottery funding if something along the lines of the vulcan to flight plan could be offered?

Im sure that the lottery said that funding XH558 was a one off, so little chance of them paying for a Shack.

.. there must be other ways of making new spars with better properties today than back 50 years ago.

Almost certainly there are, but just you try getting them certified for flight. That way lies a world of pain and expense.

If it isn’t exactly as approved, it doesn’t get to fly.

Moggy

Thanks Alan 😎

Tom.