Avro produced the Shackleton MR.Mk.1, the Shackleton MR.Mk.2 and the MR.Mk.3 (plus the T.Mk.4 and T.Mk.2 and eventually the AEW.Mk.2). That much we do know, and also the Phase I, Phase II and Phase III programmes that were applied to the MR.Mk.2 and/or the MR.Mk.3).
However, if one thumbs through books and magazine articles, there are references to the Shackleton MR.Mk.1A and Shackleton MR.Mk.2C. Thing is, there doesn’t seem to be any definitive confirmation that either designation actually existed. They are used quite a lot but generally they appear in works that are clearly full of mistakes and assumptions, so I’m not convinced that either designation was officially applied.
It reminds me of a similar story with the “Vulcan B.Mk.2A” that is often quoted. After investigation at Woodford, it was established that the designation never existed and it had simply been invented by aviation writers. I can’t help wondering if the same thing has happened in the case of the Shackleton.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
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By: Binbrook 01 - 13th August 2015 at 16:56
Have you got the Shackleton MR.4 with the single fin and Napier Nomad engines.
Tim S
By: Rosevidney1 - 13th August 2015 at 15:59
World War Shackleton……….?????????
By: Meddle - 13th August 2015 at 09:57
Looks like it needed it. Perhaps a good source of rear blades though?
By: WH904 - 12th August 2015 at 22:44
Think it’s been repainted more recently?
By: Meddle - 12th August 2015 at 20:46
What about the MR.Mk.2CC?
By: WH904 - 12th August 2015 at 18:49
Indeed, Chris does avoid the subject completely, and he also avoids the “MR.Mk.1A” although he does describe the change of engines to a common standard.
By: Peter Mills - 12th August 2015 at 17:40
I suspect that the 2C is an aircrew invention. It appears to have been used at Ballykelly and later at Changi in aircrew log books, it may have been used to differenciate between the different phases.
During my time with Shackletons one of my jobs was to fit role equipment into airframes coming back from Phase 3 refurbishment. They were then air tested and issued to the squadron(s). At no time did the F700 and associated documents use the annotation 2C. Later perusal of similar still does not include it. One of the most authoritative Shackleton books written by Chris Ashworth does not use that anywhere either.
pm
By: Trenchardbrat - 12th August 2015 at 15:56
The only thing I have on 963 is I flew with her as Ground Crew to KIA TAK Via Labuan and returned direct to Changi 4 days later in a10hr 5min Flight time> I have few photos stored away and one of her flying down the coast of New Zealand in 1970 My total flying with Shacks of 205 was 69 hrs in 2 years
In these aircraft WR963,,WL 757,WL790,Wl795,WL798 WL741,WR960
Trenchard Brat
By: richw_82 - 12th August 2015 at 15:40
Trenchardbrat – I don’t suppose you have anything relating to our WR963 when she was out there (which was about the same time as WL798)?
By: Trenchardbrat - 12th August 2015 at 15:28
The 2C is a factious item and was probably originated in some article written to confuse people. I spent two years with 205 Squadron at RAF Changi and the designation for our aircraft was Shackleton Mk 2 Phase3 and nothing else my reference is the Form 700 for WL798.
By: WH904 - 12th August 2015 at 15:22
As you say Rich, the archive drawings ought to clarify the matter – if there’s no reference there, then I think it’s safe to assume that the “1A” and “2C” never actually existed 🙂
By: richw_82 - 12th August 2015 at 15:04
The MR1 started life with two different variants of Griffon which weren’t interchangeable, 57 and 57A. I’m wondering if the 1A is post modification ‘designation’ when the Griffon 57A was used across the board allowing an engine to be fitted to any position on the aircraft, rather than specifically inboard or outboard.
By: Thunderbird167 - 12th August 2015 at 14:30
MK1A was apparently the Griffon 57 engine version of the Mk1. However all Mk1’s were re-engine so perhaps the designation was not officially used by Avro
Mk2C was used for the MK2 Phase 1 and was perhaps a common service term and not an official Avro term
This is much like the F-4J(UK) -v- F3 designation arrangement with the Phantom
By: richw_82 - 12th August 2015 at 14:23
I think your theory may be proved right after a look in the archive – as if the answer’s anywhere its in there somewhere.
While looking through for other things I’ve seen Lincoln GR.Mk.1, which became Shackleton GR.Mk.1, and 1A rings a bell; but I’ve not come across any references 2C (though with the amount of drawings I’m not discounting it yet!). Also the MR.Mk.3 is split into two variants – MR.Mk.3 RAF and SAAF respectively and they are marked as such on the drawings.
Regards,
Rich
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August 12, 2015 at 12:32 pm