Shackleton WL790 Final flight to Pima in December(Update)

Well they got her running again!

link here

As a frequent visitor to the Pima Museum, I can attest to the fact that she’ll be in very good hands.
Having been one of the first visitors to the museum in 1976…(I was very young at the time:D ) I’m always impressed how it’s grown.
What was once just a open to the public collection of types literally dragged across the motorway from AMARC, is today a very well equipped organization with new hangars and displays going up all the time.

The only downside with that location is the sun.
Planes parked outside usually have their canopies painted blue.
A suggestion…if anyone has some spare canopy sections, I’m sure a donation would be welcome…for eventual replacement far in the future.
After all, Shackleton parts aren’t going to be commom in Arizona in 20-30years time.

Hopefully Air Atlantique will give the Museum sufficent information on the type’s service history to museum goers will understand its role in the RAF & SAAF.
Again, perhaps some forum memebrs would be willing to help the museum put the plane in historical context so it won’t become just a curiousity.

Shes in the Hangar!

Just in case noone has seen it, Here is a link to the forum with pics of her inside nice and warm while inspections and preparations get underway for her final flight.
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17373&start=30&sid=58ff9415fb9a7145969e31940d7bc5af

As I look back on the eight and a half years I spent with the best engineering guys in the RAF looking after WL790 and her sisters, I consider what has happened to her since her retirement from front line service in 1991.

My professional and personal appreciation goes to Mike Collet and the team at Air Atlantique, as well as the people in the US for keeping her flying this long. In my humble opinion, she couldn’t ask for a better ‘next stage’ of her life than residing at that well known museum. We all know and accept that she will be cared for by experienced, considerate and well motivated people. The chance for future flight is real, and that will remain in the back of our collective minds.

Thank you all for keeping this ‘Old Grey Lady’ going, and for deciding on this sensible choice for her future.

camlobe

I love the Shack but considering the ammount of useage they had it would cost a fortune to do, and the EU rules would cripple it.

Same for Just Jane, I would figure there is the will and the money out there but the EU ruling would make costs prohibitive.

Yup, just the hard facts of life. I would also love to see it flying here, but the cost is just unrealistic, and there won’t be the same overall appeal like there is for (dare I say it?:diablo: ) the Vulcan.

As has been said before, at least the aircraft is going to be looked after now, and should the situation change, then perhaps flight in the future could be an option, although unlikely I would say.

It could be worse, she could have ended up like the two Pahphos Shacks. Weren’t they the best of the 8sqn bunch? – Now look at the state of them.

😡 😡

Regards,
Scotty

re

I love the Shack but considering the ammount of useage they had it would cost a fortune to do, and the EU rules would cripple it.

Same for Just Jane, I would figure there is the will and the money out there but the EU ruling would make costs prohibitive.

I dont really know about the SA Shack I’m afraid so I cant comment on it but I doubt there is any spare materials lying around anymore as the RAF seems determined to empty there store’s, even of current frontline spares! I would imagine that any known spar material will now be with the BBMF just incase there Lanc needs it again. I think I am correct in saying Air Atlantique is now the DA on the Shackelton but without a re-spar then thats not really a help. I also believe its not just a case of the wingspar either as the time has now arrived that the old girl really needs a major overhaul, spares arn’t to big an issue but the cost of doing the work is, put everything together and your probably in the £2million pounds area. As the plan’s stand the aircraft will be retired to a museum that has the best possible climate for here continued survival and one where she will recieve alot of good attention. Someday somebody may wish to return her to the skies but until that time she will be in good hands. I’m sure the ex-pats living in America as well as the American aviation enthusiasts will enjoy her. It is also one less finacial overhead for Air Atlantique to worry about, thus helping to secure the future of the flying aircraft in this country. 🙂

Obviously I’m being incredibly thick here, but why is it that a Shackleton can’t fly in the UK? when a Lanc, and B17 can; its nothing like a Lightning, or a Harrier, etc.

When Pelican (insert correct no.) was being flown from SA to the UK to appear at an airshow, why didn’t someone tell them they were wasting their time?

Ther Lancaster operates under military rules, so is not subject to the CAA and EU regulations (as was the SAAF Shack). IIRC BAESystems were opposed to it as well (do they still have design authority?)

You can fly in the States under an ‘experimental’ tag which means manufacturer support is not needed (witness Art Nalis Sea Harrier)

The Shackleton on display in the Manchester Museum of Science and Industry belongs to the RAFM. When there was talk of the MSI changing/reducing the size of their exhibition a couple of years ago I was told, had it been available, it would have gone into Cosford’s Cold War display in preference to the Hastings.

Roger Smith.

I recall reading that bringing it back to the UK was going to be problematical to say the least, and it would have been a flight into one airport and grounded.

Even thats better than retiring it in the States, let us not forget that the RAF museum dosen’t have one (on display at least), a massive hole in the collection surely.

Didn’t the South African Air Force manage to replace one of their Shackleton spars during the early 1980’s despite the arms embargo? Was this locally manufactured or British made spare? I can’t imagine them being able to buy one when the embargo was in place. As there are still 2 flying Shacks, would it be an economical proposition to manufacture spars for those 2?

It’s not the remanufacture of the spar material, it’s the cost of actually doing the job that’s the issue, as well as in the UK, the operating costs associated with insurance because of the stupid EU regs.

It’s likely that new spar material exists anyway from left over stock when BAe reparred the RAF MR2 Shack’s in the 1970’s. It was this left over stock of material that BAe used to respar the BBMF Lanc about 10 years ago.

Basically Stuart the wingspars are past there fatique life. If they could be replaced then she could fly – but thats a VERY expensive propersition.

Didn’t the South African Air Force manage to replace one of their Shackleton spars during the early 1980’s despite the arms embargo? Was this locally manufactured or British made spare? I can’t imagine them being able to buy one when the embargo was in place. As there are still 2 flying Shacks, would it be an economical proposition to manufacture spars for those 2?

I think we all have some fondness for the dear old Growler but as things stand it is a totally unviable propsition to even think of flying one in the UK, or anywhere in Europe for that matter. Yes, I would love to see one flying here but it aint gonna happen so I just have to be content that atleast she is going to escape the scrapman.

Well even though I understand the reasons behind this I have to say I am totally gutted. 🙁

I have become a major fan of this aircraft after becoming involved with the volunteer maintenance crew of WR960 (Dougal) over in Manchester through the nineties. Luckily I do have the memory of being at Woodford in 1991 at the retirement party for the last six (and seeing that was a wonder in itself).

I have to admit I do sometimes pace about the place plotting a return of the Cyprus Shacks – but that I fear would now be a massive undertaking. 😮

So Mr McHenry I hope you enjoy your retirement over in the sun (you certainly deserve looking after)

Thanks guys.

Obviously I’m being incredibly thick here, but why is it that a Shackleton can’t fly in the UK? when a Lanc, and B17 can; its nothing like a Lightning, or a Harrier, etc.

When Pelican (insert correct no.) was being flown from SA to the UK to appear at an airshow, why didn’t someone tell them they were wasting their time?

Basically Stuart the wingspars are past there fatique life. If they could be replaced then she could fly – but thats a VERY expensive propersition.

Obviously I’m being incredibly thick here, but why is it that a Shackleton can’t fly in the UK? when a Lanc, and B17 can; its nothing like a Lightning, or a Harrier, etc.

Sadly, under the current European community EASA regulations , the Shackleton would have had to carry massive third party liability insurance, based on its weight, totally disproportionate to the level of risk.

At a guess, this would mean an annual premium of something over £30,000, maybe as much as £50k. On top of all the other costs.

That means there is absolutely no chance of it ever covering its costs on the airshow circuit – let alone covering the costs of its crossing the Atlantic.

It’s obviously proving impossible even for the aeroplane to operate viably in the less restrictive atmosphere of the USA.

I think we should complement Mike Collett for hanging in there so long – and for finding a solution that will at least ensure this great aeroplane’s future survival – even if not flying.

But next time your MEP needs electing, remember the dumb legislation that he or she passed that is resulting in this sort of thing happening to so many great aircraft!

Obviously I’m being incredibly thick here, but why is it that a Shackleton can’t fly in the UK? when a Lanc, and B17 can; its nothing like a Lightning, or a Harrier, etc.

When Pelican (insert correct no.) was being flown from SA to the UK to appear at an airshow, why didn’t someone tell them they were wasting their time?

Seems to be typical of what happens to British types that have gone to the States.

As opposed to what happens to Shackeltons (and Lightnings) that stay in the U.K….:diablo:

I dont see what else they could have done!

I recall reading that bringing it back to the UK was going to be problematical to say the least, and it would have been a flight into one airport and grounded.

The logistics of looking after an aircraft so far away from home base are nightmarish, so I think this is the best result for the aircraft. I dont think that CAF could stand the financial strain of another 4 engined bomber as they are.

It is a shame though – the last four shacks to be retired have not exactly had an easy retirement. The two in Cyprus are destimed to stay there until they rot into the ground. The Coventry one seems to be in good hands, though destined to stay in Coventry.

Bruce