Short Belfast G-BEPS

Just for info. Southend Airport is holding an open day 29th and 30th. This may be a good time to get some last photo’s. I was on the aircraft at the weekend and the dismantleing is progressing much faster than I thought it would. Quote from the rep ” It will be saucepans by the end of September”.:(

Hope your WA$ doesn’t mean you are where the once mighty dollar lives!?

Now that sounds like too good an offer to be missed…..thanks for taking the trouble to join the forum to post it!

So how about it guys? A forum outing to visit and photograph this old workhorse before it goes to the knacker’s yard?

I have followed this thread with interest and indeed it is sad to see this propliner being scrapped. The HeavyLift guy who is doing the job is a friend of mine and I have been lucky enough to go to the aircraft over the last several weeks. I was on board two weeks ago when, for the very last time PS was powered up while a check was made of the systems and instruments before removal and I can say I was impressed! Everything seemed to work! To the untrained eye anyway! Even the rep said he was pleasently suprised!
From what I was told HeavyLift had every intention of getting the aircraft airworthy but there was just too many obstacles placed in the way and the actions of some individuals just proved a hurdle too high, but at least with all the parts being removed from PS it will ensure many years of ops for her sister down in Oz.
I do not know a timescale for the scrapping but I dont think it will be too long.
Perhaps some of you should take a trip to Southend for one final look, the HeavyLift guy is very approachable and I know he wants to get it done so he can get back to Oz and back flying the last remaining airworthy Belfast.

Wyvernfan – I was aware of it being the flyer.It still doesn’t address the long term problem of trying to make long term external display preservation as opposed to prolonging the agony. It could be argued that by preserving three Beverley’s we actually missed the blindingly obvious which was corrosion and the impossibility of keeping large aircraft outside in good condition.

OK fine… Lets go down the “we’ll just save one and hope for the best” road. Do you really think if 30 years ago we had just kept one Beverley, say the “safe” example at Hendon, that it would still be here today. I doubt it!

Maybe not, but at the end of the day you are just speculating. Overall, the last 30 years or so have been pretty good. Despite the minimal finances of our museums, we have seen the re-appearance of the Albacore, Hampden, Beaufort, etc. These projects were successful because those running our museums sat down and prioritised. The money pot is not infinite, and duplication of airframes that are costly to maintain can be a big waste of resources. We cannot save everything.

We are all entitled to our own opinions on preservation but i personally would like my kids, and in time grandchildren to still be able to see at least one example of most if not all types of aircraft, especially those that have a connection with Britain.

So would I, but it just aint gonna happen. We have neither the money nor the space to save everything. Lets fill some of the gaps before we start out duplicating everything.

If those in authority had done more in the past we would’nt be scratching around now trying to resurrect complete examples of the Stirling, Whitley, Whirlwind, Wyvern, Firebrand, Hermes, Tudor, …. the list is endless.

What happened in the past is irrelevent. Lets stick to the current situation.

And why does a type need to be significant to be worthy of preservation?

Because we do not have the money or the space to preserve everything. At some point we have to sit down and draw up a list of what is possible, and what isn’t. Invariably, some people will disagree with what is being allowed to slip through the net, but that’s life.

What of the test pilots and crews who sacrificed all for the development of aviation…. do they not deserve to be remembered as well?
Contrary to some peoples beliefs, aviation does not just revolve around Spitfires and Concorde!

You’ve lost me there. I assume that you are not suggesting that we preserve test pilots and crews. 🙂

Every aviation museum that I have visited has been about far more than just Spits and Concorde. Some of the best museums have examples of neither.

Best wishes
Steve P

I agree with everything that you say.

But I think we are misunderstanding each other with regard to the Belfast.

I’m not suggesting that we should preserve just one of everything (although if we could turn back time and do that it would be interesting to compare collections).

I said I didn’t think there was much chance of saving G-BEPS but that the Belfast was fairly well represented preservation wise with XR731 at Cosford and G-HLFT still flying.

And you said:

I am talking about the flyer which was apperently offered to the IWM for £4000.

As of now, August 2008, G-HLFT is not being offered for preservation.

So how is the future of the Belfast any worse if G-BEPS is scrapped?

When it retires G-HLFT could still make it into a museum, so what exactly have we lost?

OK fine… Lets go down the “we’ll just save one and hope for the best” road. Do you really think if 30 years ago we had just kept one Beverley, say the “safe” example at Hendon, that it would still be here today. I doubt it!
And now the low timed almost airworthy Guppy at Bournemouth is being scrapped.. But never mind aye, because surely one of the other two examples will be preserved, won’t they….?

We are all entitled to our own opinions on preservation but i personally would like my kids, and in time grandchildren to still be able to see at least one example of most if not all types of aircraft, especially those that have a connection with Britain. And in MY opinion the best way for that to happen is NOT preserving just one example now and hoping for the best.
If those in authority had done more in the past we would’nt be scratching around now trying to resurrect complete examples of the Stirling, Whitley, Whirlwind, Wyvern, Firebrand, Hermes, Tudor, …. the list is endless.

And why does a type need to be significant to be worthy of preservation? What of the test pilots and crews who sacrificed all for the development of aviation…. do they not deserve to be remembered as well?
Contrary to some peoples beliefs, aviation does not just revolve around Spitfires and Concorde!

You should come over to the dark side (railways) there’s a guy who deals in locomotives etc and he has bought up a number of preserved engines lately and sent them for scrap. You can probably see the fur flying from where you are.

As he said, preservation is just a step on the way to the melting pot…

Back to the topic…

I am talking about the flyer which was apperently offered to the IWM for £4000.

You’ve lost me now? :confused: Cosford has one (XR731), IWM was offered, and turned down, the flyer (G-HLFT) so there was never any real prospect of saving this one (G-BEPS).

When it retires G-HLFT could still make it into a museum, so what exactly have we lost?

How would moving it up to Duxford give it any more chance of survival if it wasn’t housed inside?

Please read my first reply to this thread before i lose the will to live!! I am talking about the flyer which was apperently offered to the IWM for £4000.:diablo:

Whilst it would be nice to see BEPS preserved where can she go and how do you get her there the cost of restoring her for a one off flight is not economic to break her in to roadable sections and re-build her is going to be just as high.

How would moving it up to Duxford give it any more chance of survival if it wasn’t housed inside?

I don’t think it is a case of being complacent…..just realistic.

Remember, the owners are not just scrapping this aircraft, they are recovering spares first. These will certainly include the engines and propellers, possibly the tyres, wheels, brakes, instruments and so on. Which museum do you suggest would want what is left?

That brings us right back to my first point. “IF” the IWM turned this down when offered the chance of it complete and flying in, then we would’nt have to worry about anyone ‘wanting what is left’.

I do fear the worst for large aircraft when there are only a few left, because once they’re gone, they’re gone! BE WARNED!:(

So are you saying that to preserve more than one example of any type is being extreme? If not I fail to see your point. Sorry if I’m playing Devil’s Advocate here but someone has to.

I would never say that, and I think you are reading your own info into what has ben said in the posts.

I think to go to the extremes of saving (ie who will go to the lengths to save, move, and house a huge aircraft?) the Southend Belfast just for the very unlikely case that the one at Cosford goes up in flames, or the one in Australia crashes is an extreme way of seeing things.
I do very much appreciate that it is usually a good idea to save more than one of a type if possible, and I think the Beverley is a good case of that.
But if we constantly worried about collections burning down we would be making copies of all one off survivors.

I hope in time that the “ones enough” brigade are not proved wrong!

Theres never an excuse to be complacent!!

I don’t think it is a case of being complacent…..just realistic.

Remember, the owners are not just scrapping this aircraft, they are recovering spares first. These will certainly include the engines and propellers, possibly the tyres, wheels, brakes, instruments and so on. Which museum do you suggest would want what is left?

I don’t think anybody is suggesting keeping only one of everything (I’d be happy with 10% of everything) but if that had been RAF policy over time wouldn’t the results be as good if not better than what we have now?

So are you saying that to preserve more than one example of any type is being extreme? If not I fail to see your point. Sorry if I’m playing Devil’s Advocate here but someone has to.

Pagen with an e, there’s a difference!
I know what your saying, just seems a bit extreme in this case.

Well there is one complete Beverley left, in the open. Less than 30 years ago there were three. I hope in time that the “ones enough” brigade are not proved wrong!

Pagan, there has been on more than one occasion a case of a museum or hangar being raised to the ground by fire, including the contents….
Theres never an excuse to be complacent!!

From a Southend-insider:

Thursday, 14 August, 2008, 12:20 AM

As off today, no actual scrapping has occurred but will do soon.
They will remove any spares they need and also the engines before scrapping commences.

I don’t suppose they could ‘cherry-pick’ a few nice bits for eBay could they? 😉