Short Sealand questions

Sealand G-AKLO was involved in an incident at Précy, Seine et Marne, France on 10 January 1952, but I can find no more information than this about it. Can anyone provide more information?

http://www.aviationancestry.co.uk/?home/&searchQuery=Sealand&startYear=…

Im guessing this is where the original note of a possible ‘Admirals Barge’ Sealand came from back on page 1 of the thread? Im assuming a ‘personal’ evaluation of the type for the role? 

Like others, i cannot see any documented use of the type by the Royal Navy in any other published papers :/

There is a description of flight testing, amongst other matters, of the Sealand in Commander Mike Crosley’s ‘Up in Harm’s Way’ originally published in hardback by Airlife (1995) and republished in 2005 by Pen & Sword under ISBN 1-84415-321-5. Chapter 5 ‘Short Brothers’ contains the account of immediate interest although I can recommend this book to all interested in aviation, particularly post war military.

It’s only 3 and bit years Mike. 🙂

You must be getting tired of being corrected now with Albert only 7 weeks ago too.

😀 Water off a duck’s back mate:D
Oh sod it – they’re all water fowl.

It’s only 3 and bit years Mike. 🙂

You must be getting tired of being corrected now with Albert only 7 weeks ago too.

Widgeon, Mallard, Gosling….I give up..think I’ll duck out now before I get goosed!!:rolleyes:

It’s only 3 and bit years Mike. 🙂

You must be getting tired of being corrected now with Albert only 7 weeks ago too.

As I said in Post 31, and Mike agreed in Post 32 – over 3 years ago.

Don’t time fly when you’re having fun? I hadn’t noticed it was that longn ago

In reply to Mike Currill, Widgeon was NOT the name the British gave to the Mallard. They are two entirely different Grumman types. The Royal Navy did refer to their Widgeons as Goslings for a time however. Quite happy to name my source – page 216 of Air Arsenal North America by Phil Butler.

Please promise you’ll try to keep up:) If you look above I actually acknowledged my eronious thinking

As the Airliner.net photo is not available, here is a great photo of the Sealand at the Air Museum in Belgrade, looks ready to go!

http://www.pbase.com/vmarinkovic/image/24084364

However the British name for the Widgeon was the Gosling…as per Airfix kit!

As I said in Post 31, and Mike agreed in Post 32 – over 3 years ago.

As to if the Widgeon was the British name – you may be right, but I think it was Grumman’s own. Anyone know?
Cheers

James,

Agree with all your corrections here and also that there were no Sealands in RN service or that there was one flying in 2002! Please can Mike scan the reference and let us all see it? I think he is confusing ‘Widgeon’ and the British name for the Mallard as there was no other name for a Mallard as far as I’m aware. However the British name for the Widgeon was the Gosling…as per Airfix kit!

Why the GIGANTIC text?

Good question, well put. Purely to match my ego, sire:D

I have just re-read the CAA Approved Flight Manual for the S.A.6 Series 1K of 1953. A few facts: VNE 178 kts 205mph. Max cruise 139 kts 160 mph. Max T/O weight 9,100 lbs. (but temperature limited) at light weight the power on stall was 47 kts. The Gipsy Queen 70-4 engines had reverse pitch, and 7’6″ 3 bladed props.
A perusal of this document convinces me that the Sealand, pretty little thing that it was, was underpowered. The thought occurs that if Leonides engines were used they would have most likely been further ourboard than the Gipsy Queens, making it a real handful in an engine out situation, and the larger diameter props would have been more prone to spray damage. ( Just a thought).

Thanks for that Kernowglyn, most intriguing. An interesting analysis. There’s no argument that it was underpowered; one could argue that as a rule of thumb many British types were underpowered where American designs weren’t in the 1930s – looking at bushplane use in Canada, for instance, de Havillands were just not up to the job compared to Fairchilds etc, and postwar British utility types took a while to overcome that pre-war mindset.

What you’ve not identified was that the original design had the engines mounted at a different height to the wing centreline than the production aircraft – this position was found to be aerodynamically problematic. (I don’t have my notes too hand, so too low / high – I can’t recall.)

HERE IS A VERY OLD FROG MODEL OF G-AKLP, SHELLS AIRCRAFT–

Welcome to the forum, JLP. Where is it? Is ‘it’ a photo?

(Also please don’t use the caps lock, it’s not regarded as polite.)

Looking forward to seeing ‘it’!

Why the GIGANTIC text?

I have just re-read the CAA Approved Flight Manual for the S.A.6 Series 1K of 1953. A few facts: VNE 178 kts 205mph. Max cruise 139 kts 160 mph. Max T/O weight 9,100 lbs. (but temperature limited) at light weight the power on stall was 47 kts. The Gipsy Queen 70-4 engines had reverse pitch, and 7’6″ 3 bladed props.
A perusal of this document convinces me that the Sealand, pretty little thing that it was, was underpowered. The thought occurs that if Leonides engines were used they would have most likely been further ourboard than the Gipsy Queens, making it a real handful in an engine out situation, and the larger diameter props would have been more prone to spray damage. ( Just a thought).

In reply to Mike Currill, Widgeon was NOT the name the British gave to the Mallard. They are two entirely different Grumman types. The Royal Navy did refer to their Widgeons as Goslings for a time however. Quite happy to name my source – page 216 of Air Arsenal North America by Phil Butler.

The postwar manufacturers type flight manual calls it the Widgeon. The Mallard and Goose had their names prominently displayed on their manual covers too.

SHORT SEALAND

Hi all,
I’ve found an article I wrote and illustrated (1991 – don’t time fly) on the Sealand for Mushroom Model Magazine. It’s got plans as well as photos and schemes. If there’s enough interest, I’ll hapilly scan and post the pages – the repro isn’t great, but it’ll give you an idea of the beast. Anyone who has a spare copy of the Frog 1/103rd scale kit of the Sealand they’d like to sell me could be a friend for like if the price was reasonable!
Cheers
James

HERE IS A VERY OLD FROG MODEL OF G-AKLP, SHELLS AIRCRAFT–

Yes, You’re right. I realised the stupidity of my remark about 2 days later and just couldn’t be bothered trawling through the threads to find this one, I knew someone would pick up on it.