Short Stirling next?

Well….maybe.

There is no evidence (apart from circumstantial) that the Dornier is the one they say it is. Certainly, a Dornier 17 did come down on the Goodwins on 26 August 1940. There are no crew unaccounted for on that particular aircraft.

However, there were plenty of other Do17s in that sea area.

RAFM have been saying for a while that it is that aircraft (I think they have recently changed that to ‘believed to be’) but there is no firm evidence. As far as we know, no positive I/d yet, either.

However, for the purposes of a licence to be granted under the PMR Act the aircraft needed to have no bombs or bodies on board. The aircraft in question ticked those boxes.

IIRC the crew members that died were recovered and buried around the time of the crash.

Are there remains on the D0 17? Of does the “War Grave” policy only cover UK personnel?

David Burke

I think the case of HMS Edinburgh was similar? The government’s greed for gold allowed them to set aside respect for the sailor’s on board.

My thoughts exactly.

Bob T.

Drifting slightly again, what became of the underwater Welsh Sunderland. Is it still there?

Drifting back to the thread, how simliar is a Sunderland wing to a Stirlings ? ( thinking Halifax / Hastings at Elvington ) If you had a Sunderland wing, could it be used / converted ?

Unfortunately not I’m afraid. I’m no expert on the wing design but I’m pretty confident that although following a similar design process they are completely different

John

David Burke

I think the case of HMS Edinburgh was similar? The government’s greed for gold allowed them to set aside respect for the sailor’s on board.

Quick, start a rumour that a Stirling at the bottom of the sea was fully loaded with gold….

Drifting back to the thread, how simliar is a Sunderland wing to a Stirlings ? ( thinking Halifax / Hastings at Elvington ) If you had a Sunderland wing, could it be used / converted ?

David Burke

I think the case of HMS Edinburgh was similar? The government’s greed for gold allowed them to set aside respect for the sailor’s on board.

Its worth pointing out that the remains of HMS Victory which contains human remains in the Channel has a salvage agreement. The fact that there might well be a substancial amount of gold on board might well have an influence on the decision to disturb the sailors remains.

I some times wonder if the war graves thing, isn’t just another way of the government getting out of having to pay to recover & honourably bury, the brave people who fought & died for this country.

Bob T.

In theory the difference is that a ‘war grave’ involves people who were alive within ‘living memory’. In political terms this is a very flexible time span and will be taken as longer rather than shorter. After several hundred years no one is bothered any more. That is no use for aircraft under the sea, of course. I suspect the motivation for the restrictions is in part to prevent ‘grave robbers’ interfering with human remains. Remember that the legislation was brought in as a response to the activities of some aviation wreck site diggers.

Allow me to play devil’s advocate….
What’s the difference between a War Grave and a legitimate archeological site?
Museums are filled with artifacts taken from grave sites…and many ships have been raised and displayed despite their crews being lost.
With the war being over almost 70 years ago, Is a Stirling any different?

That’s pretty much how it should be! The unfortunate FAA Corsair pilots in the U.S still in their respective aircraft should be recovered as a training exercise and given a dignified resting place.

I understand the idea of a war grave but in reality an aircraft will corrode away far quicker than something like a ship. That then leaves you with scattered human remains and little human dignity. What we feel now to be a grave might not be considered such in years to come – I doubt if any aircrew wished to be left in crashed aircraft if there was a chance of recovery.

David,

I found this post by John Farley, an aviator I have a great deal of respect for, interesting:

http://www.pprune.org/7887439-post36.html

I agree David,There`s still large amounts of Stirling untouched buried in Cornwall due to there being aircrew unaccounted for..:(

I understand the idea of a war grave but in reality an aircraft will corrode away far quicker than something like a ship. That then leaves you with scattered human remains and little human dignity. What we feel now to be a grave might not be considered such in years to come – I doubt if any aircrew wished to be left in crashed aircraft if there was a chance of recovery.

So that’s a “yes” then David..

… The truth is out there! 😎

Before diving the deep for Stirlings, have the potential dry recoveries in Russia and Egypt been completely discounted/discredited yet?

So that’s a “yes” then David..

If it is worth recovering the remains of the only known surviving Do17 from the seabed, then surely it is more than worthwhile recovering a Stirling in the same “or prefferably better” condition, from the seabed ?.

Bob T.

It would be great if a Stirling is found in a fresh water lake. I believe there is one, but it is a war grave and should be respected as such.