Shuttleworth Tiger Moth

Re

I wasnt moaning I was pointing out the facts. I like it in RAf markings. So go pluck yourself.

The Hind never saw Raf service. She does carry Afgan markings on the Fin. When she first flew after restoration she had Afgan markins on her, but was repainted in 1985 i believe into the markins she now flys in.
And before you start moaning about her flying in Raf markings but she never saw service in the Raf. My point is does it realy matter? She is the only airworthy example in the world.

Robbo,

You’re not sticking your neck out at all!! This is the first constructive response I have read and a quite reasonable explanation! Okay, perhaps I am being a bit hard on the Collection, but an accurate representation of the CFS team would have been nice! YES, it DOES look good and YES it needs to be kept in good nick ahead of the Gladiator because its used for pilot training.
What we need now is ‘Hairy Plane’ to get his Magister repainted and get Tiger Moth G-ANNI over to OW so all the CFS teams can be put up together :rolleyes:

If you’re going to pick holes in that scheme, why not have a go at pretty much the entire warbird community about all the different schemes and modifications. Surely someone must remove all those perfectly straight D-Day stripes and replace them with “slap-dash” ones that represent all those that were applied hours before the invasion. Or that a Spitfire XIV wearing the scheme of a much later post war Spitfire F21? What about the colours of Sally-B?

The point of aircraft like the Shuttleworth’s Tiger Moth and the rest of their collection (indeed all historic aircraft that perform at airshows) is represent the various periods of aviation and the people of those periods. Does it matter if the scheme is not 100% accurate? No, because the aircraft is flying and does the talking for itself through it’s shape, sound and in some cases smell too. That’s what people go for when they visit places like Shuttleworth, Duxford and other airshows featuring historic aircraft. At the end of the day the paint serves only to protect that airframe from the elements and highlight the aircraft.

have done with it and paint it yellow

I would have thought that “research” would have made even you realise that modern materials and finishes only approximate the full spectral and reflectivity signatures of those used at the time.

Then of course there’s the anti-spin strakes and the faired over front cockpit.
As mentioned above.

I might of course be somewhat biased but I can confirm that the people at Old Warden really do care about the exhibits.
To many people there, it’s more like a way of life, whether or not they work on the vehicle side of the collection or the aviation side of the collection or on the grounds, security or admin. Many of them give up hundreds of hours of their own time to help as volunteers and even the employed staff generally go way ‘above and beyond’ their ‘job description’.
It really is a unique little community.

And then you get some moaning bl**der who’s a glorified plane spotter by all accounts arguing over the depth of a red stripe.
I can’t actually say on here what I’d like to say but rest assured it would be very offensive and personal.
(It would involve travel too.)

as far as I’m concerned I’m finished on this subject.
Andy

The Hind and Sea Hurricane and both in serfectly accurate markings, so why buck the trend by a lack of research? 🙁

I would have thought that “research” would have made even you realise that modern materials and finishes only approximate the full spectral and reflectivity signatures of those used at the time.

and never saw RAF service?

I know the codes on the Sea Hurricane are “incorrect”

You seem to have completely missed the point – the whole point of this thread is to make sure colours and markings are correct, regardless of whether the actual aircraft ever flew in those markings. The Hind and Sea Hurricane and both in serfectly accurate markings, so why buck the trend by a lack of research? 🙁

I’d heard that the grass at Shuttleworth is the wrong shade of green.

I hope it is not the wrong type of grass as well

I’d heard that the grass at Shuttleworth is the wrong shade of green.

Yes it’s much brighter than it should in August because of all the blinkin’ rain!

However, if I was Albert Ross I’d be inclined to ask myself why no one listens to me.
I can make a guess why the Chinese don’t, they don’t give a f*ck that’s why, they’re in the business of making money.

The Shuttleworth Collection on the other hand is a charity, with sometimes frighteningly large outgoings and despite what Mr Ross (aka AB) thinks much thought is given to the way the exhibits are presented.

Later
Andy

I’d heard that the grass at Shuttleworth is the wrong shade of green.

…….And no-one’s mentioned the yellow Chipmunk yet! :diablo:

Dave,

Firstly it just isn’t practical to keep sending chips to China…whatever next, coals to Newcastle? :rolleyes:

I don’t see how it isn’t practical – you’re already sending other data, just slip them into the envelope… Colour chips are not that hard to come by either.

Secondly the NZ Kittyhawk was nothing to do with me

I never meant to imply that at all, I was just pointng out the Hurricane is not the only balls-up they’ve made. I never even knew you work for Corgi till this thread.

, although if I hadn’t intervened it would have been painted in RAF desert camo! 😮

Instead it’s in Luftwaffe desrt camo. It certainly isn’t in the right scheme.

You give them the correct British Standard or Federal Standard reference numbers, you check the artwork and check the prototype model…..all correct, then the Chinese ****-up the production run! I can only lead them to water….!!!

If they are that unreliable, Corgi shouldn’t use them. They are ruining the name of a once great British company which will soon go the way of Dinky and Matchbox and Lledo.

As many of you know, I am particular about accuracy (pedantic maybe :rolleyes: ) but I do try to ensure accuracy is maintained in the model and real worlds.

That’s fine by me Albert. I have always enjoyed and respected your posts here, you have a huge depth of knowledge and photos, and are usually very accurate in your posting. I’ve learned a great deal from your posts too. That’s great. My beef was with that Corgi model, which wasn’t your doing as you say. Sorry if it seemed like an attack on you, I’ve wanted to vent over that model ever since I first saw it as it’s an insult tothe RNZAF as far a I’m concerned, and here was my first opportunity.

Oh crikey.

…She does carry Afgan markings on the Fin…

No she doesn’t. :rolleyes:

When first restored, it was painted in full Afghan Air Force colours, as per the agreement of purchase, and then later put into 15 Sqn RAF (XV) colours, which the Hind, as a type, DID fly with. The badge on the fin, Ollie, isn’t a ‘Afghan’ then or now. Why not actually do some research and tell us what it actually is, please? 😎

Albert, the message is part of the medium. If you really care about correct colours (I know you do) you might like to moderate your approach in offering advice and you might find it a lot more welcome. Likewise, I don’t care what excuses you can put forward to Corgi’s failures to follow that same advice; the model, not your methodology is what is the final result, and it’s no better a result than that which you are complaining about. “I keep telling Shuttleworth they’re stupid and incompetent, but they won’t listen”… Well, not surprising really is it?

Accuracy (vis a vis schemes, Tiger or Tutor) is one thing. Personal preference, such as the Gladiator is just that – personal. Don’t project your own desires as a majority view. Most people don’t care what colour he Glad is, and it’s been in four distinct schemes in it’s flying career (five if you count a serial change) which is rather good really. As the Norwegians paid for the scheme for a documentary, it was, and remains, a ‘win-win’. There’s a lot of merit in NOT having the Glad in an expected and obvious RAF scheme – but it’s certain it will return to RAF colours one day, so the only problem is your impatience.

The Shuttleworth Collection is far from perfect; however it’s the oldest active major aviation collection in the world, the vast majority of it’s aircraft fly, and safely, in generally accurate schemes. Of those three points, ‘fly’ and ‘safe’ are the ones that matter – the third’s a nice to have.

It works. It’s the best in the world and it’s still here, a major achievement itself. Feel free to knock it, but bear in mind if you do you’ll be asked to show a comparable track record and constructive comment – Albert’s achievements with Corgi simply aren’t good enough. Constructive comment might just involve asking Shuttleworth how you can help, rather than telling them they’re stupid and wrong. However, I’d not blame them if they never listen to you again, after your previous performance.

In friendship…

and never saw RAF service?

The Hind never saw Raf service. She does carry Afgan markings on the Fin. When she first flew after restoration she had Afgan markins on her, but was repainted in 1985 i believe into the markins she now flys in.
And before you start moaning about her flying in Raf markings but she never saw service in the Raf. My point is does it realy matter? She is the only airworthy example in the world.

For the record, I dont dislike the Glad in Norwegian colours. It would be nice to see a change however I would rather the SE5a, Lysander, Comet, Spitfire etc fly first if decisions on where money is spent have to be made.

I know there were some hard decisions made to ensure the collection’s longer term viability at the time, but what a shame that an aircraft such as the Gull G-ADPR was sold off, then hung in a building and is now grounded. Then again it wasn’t military and wasn’t a trainer so I suppose it was inevitable in the light of subsequent acquisition policies:(

Re

and never saw RAF service?

I know the codes on the Sea Hurricane are “incorrect”

Yes the Hind was Afgan.

re:

Mr. Painter,

If the job had been done properly in the first place, there would be no need for any comment just praise. Your ‘quite a bit of research’ obviously didn’t include checking a photo of the original team? Indeed I have contacted Shuttleworth about this and it was me that provided all the reference photos for the Tutor repaint, but they still chose to paint the top decking green despite the evidence that it should be RED! 😡 For a collection constantly in the public eye, not only the general paying public, but historians expect Shuttleworth’s aircraft to be painted accurately! We are still waiting for the Gladiator to be repainted in accurate RAF colours after a protracted period in that awful dual-serialled Norwegian scheme! If aircraft such as the Hind, Sea Hurricane and others can be repainted in perfect accuracy and authenticity, appreciated by those that know and those that don’t, then why spoil things for the former?

you have some interesting points. wasnt the Hind an Afghan example and the Sea Hurricane never actually saw squadron service though? I think its great to see the Gladiator in an export scheme, but why choose the most boring one! There were loads of less plain schemes!

[QUOTE=25deg south]

…that’s IT..hat? coat
Sorry , did you say that you advised on colour schemes?

😀 😀 😀

[QUOTE=ALBERT ROSS]…that’s IT..hat? coat
Sorry , did you say that you advised on colour schemes?