Shuttleworth Trust Aero Engines

Carol, I’ll send you a PM setting out the entirety of my correspondence on this subject with the Shuttleworth Trust. I’m not sure that it would be appropriate to post that on a public forum but it suffices to say that I started that correspondence with an e-mail addressed to [email]enquiries@shuttleworth.org[/email] which was forwarded internally.

Hey aa, I was just leaving Shuttleworth’s employment about the time you wrote your letter. Who exactly did you address it to and who replied?

At that time, they did not really have a department dealing with public enquiries of that nature. You mention the Trust a number of times and it is worth understanding that the Trust consists of many more sections than the aviation side, which is a relatively small part of it*. When I was there, I don’t believe any of the Trustees were full-time employees. The aviation side revolved around the visitor attraction (including the extremely popular Swiss Garden & playground & educational facilities), event organising (weddings, parties, large non-aviation group events), the shop, restaurant and engineering and the administration of all of the above. Public enquiries were tricky and not handled by one person but farmed out to which ever one of the above departments appeared to be most appropriate.

The SVAS handled most of the enthusiasts’ queries. However, if you wrote to the Trustees, there is a possibility that your query would not get forwarded to the SVAS as they were, up until the summer of 2015, located in a different building and their paths rarely crossed. The SVAS volunteers may only come in to work randomly, once or twice a week, and then possibly not for a full day. They are volunteers and it is wonderful the amount of time that is given for free and with deep passion by them.

Also, just asking for a list of engines, although definitely not intended, may appear like asking someone their bank balance. I honestly don’t know in this case, but organisations often hold spare engines in storage for backup or trading purposes and they would not want to show their hand. I don’t think it was so much the security of the place that was a concern. We already know the Collection is worth millions, just by owning a single Spitfire and Hurricane.

On top of this, there are quite a large number of aircraft at Shuttleworth and to collect all that information would take a considerable amount of time to collate. If you offered to pay (expect possibly £60/hr, if you didn’t get a volunteer) you might (guessing) get a more favourable response, so long as your letter was written to the right place. I am not sure there is a ‘right’ place, but you could always start with [email]enquiries@shuttleworth.org[/email].

Yes, I’ve never been that convinced by the ‘security’ or ‘stolen to order’ argument that some museums use to restrict photography or information about exhibits being in the public domain; yes, I’m sure their security advisers and insurers tell them not to ‘advertise’ the presence of valuable exhibits but how does that not conflict fundamentally with the purpose of a museum!

I’m not dismissing security concerns, I’m somewhat paranoid about my own home security (and on this forum I don’t use my own name) but then I’m not trying to run a ‘commercial’ museum either!

However, having said that, museums are usually short-staffed, even volunteer staff, and one answered request online may ‘open the floodgates’ as it were.

I took these photographs a couple of years ago when I became interested in ANZANI engines, I’ve also got some (poor) photographs of the engines themselves, and took photographs of the display boards so I knew later what I had photographed.

I think I’ve also got photographs of the ANZANI engines at RAF Hendon somewhere?

Thank you, Creaking Door, for taking those photographs. But they leave me wondering why, if the Shuttleworth Trust does not wish ‘to place such information in the public domain’, it has such detailed information boards on display and does not prevent the information thereon being copied and removed. Anyhow, as I still haven’t written the article for which this information was required, the material is most useful. Thank you, again.

Thank you, trekbuster. Yes, I know that it’s the wrong time of the year. But that just the way that things have panned out! So if you can help me, when next you visit Old Warden, I’ll be grateful. And if, in the meantime, I manage to get the information by an alternative method, I’ll post to that effect here.

Thank you, TwinOtter23. I’ll certainly pursue that lead. But I have to say that I’m a little surprised that no SVAS members have offered help. But maybe they are not permitted to do so?

It may be that SVAS members such as myself don’t have an encyclopaedic knowledge of their engine collection and live 130 miles away and won’t be returning to OW till around Christmas time. If you can wait that long………

One last try! Although I’ve contacted the AEHS and RRHT, and await their replies, if there is anyone, SVAS member or otherwise, who would be willing to help me buit would prefer not to make such an offer publicly, please do feel free to contact me by way of a PM.

Thank you, TwinOtter23. I’ll certainly pursue that lead. But I have to say that I’m a little surprised that no SVAS members have offered help. But maybe they are not permitted to do so?

It might also be worthwhile contacting the Rolls-Royce Heritage Trust.

They compiled a list of – “Aero-Engines Exhibited & Stored in the UK & Ireland” for BAPC; albeit a number of years ago it did feature the engines at Shuttleworth.

Thank you, Planemike. Whilst I agree with your sentiments I see no point in continuing to bang my head against that particular brick wall. Thus I can only hope that someone attending Old Warden, in the near future, will help me to circumnavigate the Shuttleworth Trust online ‘nyet’.

Welcome to Project Blériot ‐ The Shuttleworth Collection Online Library and Archive Catalogue

The online catalogue (Blériot) is a major addition to the Archive Research Service. It contains in excess of ten thousand records of books, letters and photographic material; this is the first phase of the project and is concerned with prime sources. This means that folders containing correspondence or photographs are only identified by their titles and a brief description of their contents. Currently these folders are being catalogued in depth but this information will not be available online in the near future. Queries relating to their contents will continue to be processed via the Archive Research Service.

Browsing Blériot is a free service; its purpose is to enable researchers to be aware of the Shuttleworth Collection’s rich information assets. It is targeted at:
•Members of the Public with general aviation information enquiries.
•Those with specific technical or historical aviation information inquiries including: ◦Researchers undertaking major projects
◦Academic researchers
◦Aviation and Military Museums

•Members of SVAS and Shuttleworth Collection staff

The above is taken from the Trusts own website. As I understood it, one the Trust’s prime functions was education. To my mind the way they have dealt with your enquiry hardly fits in with that ethos. AA, you are probably correct in saying the Trust is only accountable to its Trustees but it is reliant on support from the public and it volunteers……..

If someone with criminal intent is intent on uplifting a Merlin engine (yes, they do have one!!) I am sure not telling you they have one is hardly going to protect it.

Some years back I enquired about a particular exhibit and received a detailed reply including a number of photographs.

so true on your second point Avion.As a pro photograher I get annoyed at restrictions on camera use when anyone with illegal intentions can easily conceal cameras of the pinhole kind.

Thank you, Scotavia. When first I looked at the AEHS website, I thought that the organisation appeared rather US-centric. But on the basis that if you don’t ask, you won’t know what the answer will be, I’ll contact the AEHS and see if they can help me.

Whilst I can understand, Mike J, why your suggestion might be the reason for the policy, what point is there in saying, effectively, to those enquiring from a distance ‘we won’t tell you anything about the artefacts in our collection’ when those less distant – including the criminal fraternity – can turn up at Old Warden, make copious notes and take numerous photographs and then put that into the public domain by using the internet and/or print media – or use that for more nefarious purposes? But then, the Shuttleworth Collection can do what it likes for whatever reason it wishes. It’s only accountable to its trustees and the Charity Commission – and certainly not me or the general public.

I understand that there was a problem at Old Warden a while back with engines and propellers allegedly disappearing. That may well be the reason for this policy.

While it has not got the list you desire on line perhaps a member of their organisation migh be of help ?
http://www.enginehistory.org/

Ridiculous, bizarre………..or what ?!!!! Seems a reasonable question ask and expect a factual answer to.

Today, nearly one month after making my enquiry, I’ve received a reply to my question from the Shuttleworth Trust. It reads as follows:

‘It is with regret that I must inform you that it is the current policy of the Shuttleworth Collection not to place such information in the public domain’.

One must assume that this policy has been implemented as the Trust perceive that to put such information into the public domain is to inform those who might, armed with it, be minded to steal artefacts from the Collection. If so, I hasten to add that I am not such a person and that whilst I can understand the reasoning behind the policy, to me it suggests that the Shuttleworth Trust has started to tread the path already worn by the Hawkinge museum. This saddens me and inevitably leaves me wondering whether, in due course, visitors to Old Warden will be required to leave their cameras, mobile telephones, notepads and writing implements at the entrance to the site and/or that the Trust will decline to co-operate, either actively or passively, with journalists writing articles or books which concern or mention the artefacts in the Collection?

In the meantime, is there anyone planning to visit Old Warden soon who is willing to provide me with details of the engines on display, both attached to and detached from aeroplanes, that are the product of ABC, Blackburne, Douglas, Scott, J.A.Prestwich and British Anzani? I will not ask such person to enquire about any engines in the Collection that are not on display. I require the information for the purposes of an article that I’m writing for the motorcycling press.

Thank you, Sabrejet. Yes, it is a start. But I’ve my fingers crossed for a finish too – and anything that’s in between!

They definitely have an off-aircraft Blackburne Tomtit, which was there a month or so ago:

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Hope this is a start!

Thank you, Paul, but it’s not a problem. I only mentioned the fact that I had asked the Shuttleworth Trust because I suspected that otherwise, the responses would have been that I should do so before posting my request on this forum! It’s the getting of the information, rather than the source of it, that’s important to me.