Sick Shackleton????

If I had a brain Id be dangerous 🙂

I agree, when fitting propellers to Griffons (or Merlins) with a torque wrench, the engine starts to turn at about 500 lb ft. The only reason you can pull them through by hand is because the blades are over 6ft long. Surely it would take a windspeed of at least 200mph to turn them?
As for one engine being tighter than the rest, there may be a grain of truth in that as engines do vary, but unless the difference is minute then that engine must be Shagged. Would you want to fly knowing one engine was tight to turn? Don`t think so.

Oooops, sorry Pete, I forgot about you when it came to Griffons, post suitably ammended. Bex

forget the vulcan for five minutes, and think back to pre-vulcan days. Remember the air of expectancy when pelican 16 was on its way over here?… it draws comparison to the p-38 glacier gal story…

When I was 17 I got ever so excited when I saw a shack flying low over my school. As it turns out, it was AA’s Mr. mchenry on its way stateside. The support for a shack flying over here is strong, but is not comparable to a lanc or the vulcan. Everyone is getting in a lather over the p-40 at TFC or the p-38 which almost made it…if someone was to bring a shack back here and be able to display it, it would receive applause as much as the next classic.

South African Shack

I do believe there is a problem with people current to fly them as well….:(

There is also what happened to Pelican 16.

The Shack in service had quite a lot of problems with the translation unit in the contra-rotating props. Would it be true to say that these are going to be pretty intensive aircraft to maintain? I don’t know…. As much as I would love to see the Shack fly, I don’t believe for a second there is enough public interest to make it worth while to make one of these old ladies fly again – it doesn’t have the same draw as a Vulcan…

The machine in France is for the museum at Le Bourget.

[QUOTE=topgun regect;1132838]

Isnt there a lanc being restored in France somewhere in Aeronavale colours?

Martin

To put it simply… I don’t know. Nice thought though.

As for the cyprus shacks – if the interest was there, I’m sure they could be made to fly.

I’d love to see a lanc in canada’s maritime colours fly. It would be 100% authentic and would be so completely different to what is expected! i remember the Strathallan lanc….:(

Mr. Weeks has too many toys (although I’m sure he would disagree) for his collection be expanded… Its good that he has so many rare and significant airframes in store, but needs a beter policy for looking after the ones he has got.. (see Sunderland). I would love for him to get the lanc going, but I’d also love to see the sunderland turreted up and painted properly…

In all honesty, the next lanc/shack to fly after the AA shack’s one off ferry flight, I believe will be one of the Canadian ones. As has been said, its all down to $$$$$$

[QUOTE=Lindy’s Lad;1132579]

We tried to think of ten lanc/shacks too….

BBMF
Just Jane
Weeks
Canadian Lanc (maybe x2….)
Lanc in Oz / NZ (if the spars and the interest are there, why not?…)
South African Shack
AA Shack (Mr. McHenry)
Shack at Coventry

there’s 8 or nine possibles…. something about costs being cheaper for a limited production run of minimum 10…

Isnt there a lanc being restored in France somewhere in Aeronavale colours?

Martin

Gary Austin made that post on the WIX. You might recognize him as the man that has been behind the rebirth of the CAF’s B-24 “Ole ‘927. If he says the blades moved I believe him!

However, he clearly pointed at that the reasoning behind the strong winds was none other than a tornado! It proceeded to rip the roofs up of at least 2 hangars. Tornadoes are known to have straight line winds in the 200 mph range without really trying.

No lancs in canada?

David tut tut mate! there are at least 3 possibly 4 lancs that would like new spars but $$$$$$ forbids it:o

The Cyprus Shackletons were bought by Savvas Constinedes . He with an team from RAF Akrotiri flew one aircraft for a flight after it was delivered.
He owned at that stage HeliMed and the story on the ground was he simply lost interest in the aircraft. I don’t think cash was ever an issue.

[QUOTE=Lindy’s Lad;1132579]

We tried to think of ten lanc/shacks too….

And no one thought of two Shacks in Cyprus although he can’t afford to look after them?!

Someones pulling your Plo***r! If you had any idea how much wind force would be required to turn the engines over from the props you’d be a little more skeptical. Of course it is possible, not sure how much more would have blown off the rest of the airframe by then. At GAM we lost the DA behind No.3 a few years ago in “hurricane force” winds, but oddly enough the prop blades didn’t move. Hand rotating the engine does it no harm ( either direction). In fact it’s part of our pre-start checks. Turning constantly for a prolonged period would not do the engine any good mind you.

I agree, when fitting propellers to Griffons (or Merlins) with a torque wrench, the engine starts to turn at about 500 lb ft. The only reason you can pull them through by hand is because the blades are over 6ft long. Surely it would take a windspeed of at least 200mph to turn them?
As for one engine being tighter than the rest, there may be a grain of truth in that as engines do vary, but unless the difference is minute then that engine must be Shagged. Would you want to fly knowing one engine was tight to turn? Don`t think so.

The spar material used on PA474 was left over material from the 1970’s Shackleton respar programme on the AEW aircraft. I cannot foresee a big demand for Lancaster / Shanckleton spars. The Weeks machine shows no signs of coming out of store and I cannot see any other demand in Canada.
As for the South African Shackleton – the will to operate her further is probably there but I doubt there is much money to do it.
Overall I doubt the demand would exceed two sets.

such a defeatist… 😀

That would no doubt show itself in the talks with BAe, which I have no part or interest in….Like I said, this is all from conversations with various people connected to the two coventry shacks. Alot can change in six months, and I am quite sure that the people involved would have the sense to contact potential buyers before completeing the order….

The spar material used on PA474 was left over material from the 1970’s Shackleton respar programme on the AEW aircraft. I cannot foresee a big demand for Lancaster / Shanckleton spars. The Weeks machine shows no signs of coming out of store and I cannot see any other demand in Canada.
As for the South African Shackleton – the will to operate her further is probably there but I doubt there is much money to do it.
Overall I doubt the demand would exceed two sets.

[QUOTE=AndyG;1132535]

IThe Shackleton Association were in talks with BAe Systems regarding a production run of ten full sets of spars. Costs could be covered by selling the remaining 8 sets (less AA’s shack and their own also at Coventry)
QUOTE]

8 full sets?/ 😮

1 for the MK3 in SA, two for AA…

1 for Just Jane?:) (was shack spar billet which was used for PA474 IIRC?)

1 for Mr Weeks?

Thats five I can take a stab at, anyone else looking for a set of 4 engine Avro spars, or is there a special offer on 8 sets at the moment?

We tried to think of ten lanc/shacks too….

BBMF
Just Jane
Weeks
Canadian Lanc (maybe x2….)
Lanc in Oz / NZ (if the spars and the interest are there, why not?…)
South African Shack
AA Shack (Mr. McHenry)
Shack at Coventry

there’s 8 or nine possibles…. something about costs being cheaper for a limited production run of minimum 10…

PA474 had the spar caps replaced some years ago, and will be due again at some point. I don’t think they were new caps….

erm… why do all of them need to be put into an aircraft straight away, spare spars would ensure that no matter what they would be flying for the foreseeable future 😀

[QUOTE=Lindy’s Lad;1132423]IThe Shackleton Association were in talks with BAe Systems regarding a production run of ten full sets of spars. Costs could be covered by selling the remaining 8 sets (less AA’s shack and their own also at Coventry)
QUOTE]

8 full sets?/ 😮

1 for the MK3 in SA, two for AA…

1 for Just Jane?:) (was shack spar billet which was used for PA474 IIRC?)

1 for Mr Weeks?

Thats five I can take a stab at, anyone else looking for a set of 4 engine Avro spars, or is there a special offer on 8 sets at the moment?

Props turned by wind… Funny!

Someones pulling your Plo***r! If you had any idea how much wind force would be required to turn the engines over from the props you’d be a little more skeptical. Of course it is possible, not sure how much more would have blown off the rest of the airframe by then. At GAM we lost the DA behind No.3 a few years ago in “hurricane force” winds, but oddly enough the prop blades didn’t move. Hand rotating the engine does it no harm ( either direction). In fact it’s part of our pre-start checks. Turning constantly for a prolonged period would not do the engine any good mind you.

I discussed at length the plans for air atlantiques shack earlier this year, with the former chief engineer (he migrated to the Lanc project with me). As it stood in February this year:

The plan was to return the shack on a ferry flight as soon as the proposed base move was completed. Whether this move takes place was still under discussion at that time.

The Shack cannot get a permit to fly due to the fatique life of the spars, which would require a major refit irrespective of whether the spars were to be replaced.

Another group were in talks with BAe Systems regarding a production run of ten full sets of spars. Costs could be covered by selling the remaining 8 sets (less AA’s shack and the other at Coventry)

As it stands, if the shack was to fly back over here, she would be immediately grounded with no chance of ever getting airbourne again in her present condition. (She also needs a cockpit glazing change)

A proposed solution was to keep her in ‘airworthy’ trim until the major inspection could take place.

The trip to Texas was to take place during the summer after the DC6 check 4. The engineers would carry out routine maintenance and examine the feasiblility of bringing her back at a later date.

Props turning in the wind is not a major problem, but may cause damage if the movement is sustained due to lack of oil. (sorry, I’m not an expert on Griffons)

Hope some of this helps, but remember it was at the beginning of the year, and plans change rapidly….

Best person to talk to to is WILL J on here…AA classic flight’s PR guy…

I saw someone demonstrating the contra-props on one of the Gatwick Shackletons once, by pushing the blades round by hand. Didn’t look like there was too much resistance.

Can’t imagine it does the engine too much good though.

Well MJR + Peter Mills + MerlinPete know more about Shack (Griffon)engines than I do, but I also have seen the props being turned by hand aswell at GAM, it also helps drain out water.

As for the CAA, IIRC its the main spars that are the problem and Im pretty sure that theres no chance of OEM spars unless the are made from scratch, also there was some mention of this on a thread before, something about Shack Spars being hand made and modern ones would be machined and then new ones wouldnt fit. But, typical me, I cant find that thread for the life of me, sorry folks. Bex

Please excuse my ignorance, but is it a problem if the winds move / turn the props?

Is there any more news as it to if / when we might see a Shac gracing our (UK!) skys once more?

Regards

927

I saw someone demonstrating the contra-props on one of the Gatwick Shackletons once, by pushing the blades round by hand. Didn’t look like there was too much resistance.

Can’t imagine it does the engine too much good though.