Skjold class patrol boat vs Houbei class missile boat

I gained the distinct impression Skjolds are hard to get for international customers.

As the Philippines I’d rather be interested in short-range (WVR) AShM with large warheads (does such a thing exist?) to be mounted on fishing trawlers.

I’ve not heard anything specific to say Skjold is restricted or sensitive in any way?. They certainly didn’t mind the US picking them apart?. I think that its only relatively recently that the whole capability package has been fully mature maybe that’s had a bearing?

The Phillipines was a reference to the kind of state who, potentially, could see the maximum return from the Skjold design. The costs I’m sure would be out of their reach but, I’m sure there is a PN officer or two who’s looked wistfully at the design and thought about how useful they could be!. As for the covert horizon range AShM I’d say Penguin is about the closest you’d get for low deck footprint deployability and ease of targetting. Warhead isn’t huge but you can send a few and they’ll mission kill a destroyer or LPD.

I gained the distinct impression Skjolds are hard to get for international customers.

As the Philippines I’d rather be interested in short-range (WVR) AShM with large warheads (does such a thing exist?) to be mounted on fishing trawlers.

That’s gonna work only one time, and only if you are really lucky,
and any potential survivors are also out of luck since they were fighting disguised

I gained the distinct impression Skjolds are hard to get for international customers.

Why do you suggest that Skjolds are hard to get for international customers?

The missile is the key difference. IIR with Target Recognition/Rejection means the Skjold CO can be ‘less sure’ of his surface plot than his Chinese opposite number and still launch his attack….thats a big deal when talking about 2 designs heavily reliant on offboard targetting sources.

The dual role sea/land strike capability could also be remarkably useful especially if you are an archipelago or island state. The ability to sneak a couple three of these in range of a neighbouring island/coastline volleying off 16-24 precision guided missiles and then pushing it up to 60kts to blast for home before any surface pursuit can be attempted could be a very handy way of delivering strike effect covertly. Plus, as mentioned, the OTO76SR means Strales and potentially Vulcano76 for the hull so meaningful self defence and secondary antisurface capabilities exist in the hull which the Chinese boat doesnt share.

If I was in the Phillipines Navy I think that a dozen of these plus a couple of MRV/Tender type hulls, to support deployed operations, would likely be very high up on my list for Santa Claus.

I gained the distinct impression Skjolds are hard to get for international customers.

As the Philippines I’d rather be interested in short-range (WVR) AShM with large warheads (does such a thing exist?) to be mounted on fishing trawlers.

The missile is the key difference. IIR with Target Recognition/Rejection means the Skjold CO can be ‘less sure’ of his surface plot than his Chinese opposite number and still launch his attack….thats a big deal when talking about 2 designs heavily reliant on offboard targetting sources.

The dual role sea/land strike capability could also be remarkably useful especially if you are an archipelago or island state. The ability to sneak a couple three of these in range of a neighbouring island/coastline volleying off 16-24 precision guided missiles and then pushing it up to 60kts to blast for home before any surface pursuit can be attempted could be a very handy way of delivering strike effect covertly. Plus, as mentioned, the OTO76SR means Strales and potentially Vulcano76 for the hull so meaningful self defence and secondary antisurface capabilities exist in the hull which the Chinese boat doesnt share.

If I was in the Phillipines Navy I think that a dozen of these plus a couple of MRV/Tender type hulls, to support deployed operations, would likely be very high up on my list for Santa Claus.

What an excellent subject started by the hot saucage nr. 20!

Was it a coincidence that it was started on May 17th, the Norwegian constitution day? Who knows…

My completely, 100% biased opinion is that of course the Skjold class completely outstrips that other boat by far:

1. Speed of course as others have mentioned.
2. Stealth characteristic is probably much better on the Skjold
3. It got some world-class sensors
4. Networking capabilities
5. It has better seakeeping capabilities
6. The NSM is due to it’s stealth characteristics one of the most lethal missiles out there.
7. It got a real cannon

but China can build more and have longer range missile. no contest

What an excellent subject started by the hot saucage nr. 20!

Was it a coincidence that it was started on May 17th, the Norwegian constitution day? Who knows…

My completely, 100% biased opinion is that of course the Skjold class completely outstrips that other boat by far:

1. Speed of course as others have mentioned.
2. Stealth characteristic is probably much better on the Skjold
3. It got some world-class sensors
4. Networking capabilities
5. It has better seakeeping capabilities
6. The NSM is due to it’s stealth characteristics one of the most lethal missiles out there.
7. It got a real cannon

After Latakia Operation Praying Mantis in the Persian Gulf was probably the clearest example of ship to ship missile combat.

The Iranian Combattante class missile boat Joshan fired a Harpoon at USS Wainwright. The Wainright and USS Simpson returned missile fire with Standards and USS Bagely launched a Harpoon. The USS Joseph Strauss later fired another Harpoon at the Iranian frigate Sahand…which had already been engaged with two air launched Harpoons. Theres a good degree of information out there on the action.

Lots of thoughts went into managing the Type 22’s thermal and visual signature. Radar also, but I think mostly against long-range sensors (that thing doesn’t leave a conventional wake), not sooo much against higher frequencies. Apart from that what you can say from just looking at it, I don’t know anything about the class.

Skjold is a fine piece of equipment and there is no other small combatant as fast (and crew-friendly and sensor-stable) at higher sea states than the Skjolds. And it’s actually one of those rare vehicles that can go further when going faster. But they should do something about those GT exhausts (like putting them under water, as on the MEKO Valour class). IR signature must be substantial. NSM missile is sweet but could use a larger warhead (as almost all Western AShM).

They have done something about the exhausts, it is coled down by water, so when you look at it driving, you will se water comming out of those GT exhausts 🙂

Throughout history & excluding testing,
how many ships have been sunk by another ship missiles ?

The first anti-ship missiles, which were developed and built by Nazi Germany, used radio command guidance, these saw some success in the Mediterranean Theater in 1943 – 44, sinking or heavily damaging at least 31 ships with the Henschel Hs 293 and more than seven with the Fritz X.
In 1967, the Israeli Navy’s destroyer Eilat was the first ship to be sunk by a ship-launched missile – a number of Styx missiles launched by Egyptian missile boats off the Sinai Peninsula.
In the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 the Indian Navy conducted two raids using OSA 1 – class missile boats employing the Styx on the Pakistani Naval base at Karachi. These raids resulted in the destruction or crippling of approximately two thirds of the Pakistani Navy. Major losses included two destroyers, a fleet oiler, an ammunition ship, approximately a dozen merchant ships and numerous smaller craft.
The Battle of Latakia in 1973 (during the Yom Kippur / Ramadan War) was the scene of the world’s first combat between anti-ship missile-equipped missile boats. In this battle, the Israeli Navy destroyed Syrian warships without suffering any damage, using electronic countermeasures for defense. After defeating the Syrian navy the Israeli missile boats also sunk a number of Egyptian warships, again without suffering any damage in return, thus achieving total naval supremacy for the rest of the war.
Anti-ship missiles were used in the 1982 Falklands/Malvinas War. The British warship HMS Sheffield, a 4,820 ton Type 42 Destroyer, was struck by a single air-launched Exocet AShM, she later sank as a result of the damage that she sustained. The container ship Atlantic Conveyor was also sunk by an Exocet. HMS Glamorgan was damaged

More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-ship_missile (you could have found that yourself)

Throughout history & excluding testing,
how many ships have been sunk by another ship missiles ?

hm I am convinced of your words that the Gripen of patrol boats can defeat the J-20 of patrol boats.

76mm vs 30mm cannon: no contest

The dual use sea/land missile alone puts the Norwegian vessel No1.

hm I am convinced of your words that the Gripen of patrol boats can defeat the J-20 of patrol boats.

The dual use sea/land missile alone puts the Norwegian vessel No1.

The Naval Strike Missile (NSM) is intended as anti-ship and land-attack missile. A multi-role version of the NSM is in development. This missile is called Joint Strike Missile (JSM) and will feature an option for ground strike and a two-way communications line. Improved features for the Joint Strike Missile include:
Ability to attack sea and land based targets
Aerial launch platform (F-35)
Improved range over NSM to 240 km

Lots of thoughts went into managing the Type 22’s thermal and visual signature. Radar also, but I think mostly against long-range sensors (that thing doesn’t leave a conventional wake), not sooo much against higher frequencies. Apart from that what you can say from just looking at it, I don’t know anything about the class.

Skjold is a fine piece of equipment and there is no other small combatant as fast (and crew-friendly and sensor-stable) at higher sea states than the Skjolds. And it’s actually one of those rare vehicles that can go further when going faster. But they should do something about those GT exhausts (like putting them under water, as on the MEKO Valour class). IR signature must be substantial. NSM missile is sweet but could use a larger warhead (as almost all Western AShM).

hm very interesting comments, but what type 22? is that houbei’s western name?

Lots of thoughts went into managing the Type 22’s thermal and visual signature. Radar also, but I think mostly against long-range sensors (that thing doesn’t leave a conventional wake), not sooo much against higher frequencies. Apart from that what you can say from just looking at it, I don’t know anything about the class.

Skjold is a fine piece of equipment and there is no other small combatant as fast (and crew-friendly and sensor-stable) at higher sea states than the Skjolds. And it’s actually one of those rare vehicles that can go further when going faster. But they should do something about those GT exhausts (like putting them under water, as on the MEKO Valour class). IR signature must be substantial. NSM missile is sweet but could use a larger warhead (as almost all Western AShM).

I think the key here is the Kongsberg NSM

Skjold class

The Skjold class patrol boats remain the fastest armed craft in the world (60 knots / 110 km/h. From 2009 the Royal Norwegian Navy has described them as coastal corvettes (kystkorvett) because their seaworthiness is seen as comparable to corvettes. 6 units are currently in service with RNN.

General characteristics

Type:coastal corvette

Displacement:274 tonnes full load

Length:(47.50 m) 155.83 ft
(14.3 m) 46.8 ft (Length on cushion)
Beam:(13.50 m) 44.29 ft
Draught:(1.0 m) 3.3 ft

Propulsion:

2 × Twin gas turbines →12,170 kilowatts
Twin diesel engines →1,490 kilowatts

Speed:
In rough sea: 45 knots
In calm sea: 60 knots

Range:800 nmi at 40 knots (74 km/h)

Complement:15-16

Sensors and processing systems:

Thales MRR-3D-NG air/surface radar Ceros 200 FC
CS-3701 electronic warfare suite
Sagem Vigy 20 Electro-optical sensor

Armament:

8 Kongsberg Naval Strike Missile SSMs kept in an internal weapons bay
76mm Otobreda Super Rapid multi-role cannon
Mistral Surface to air missile
12.7mm gun

Notes:

Soft kill:
TKWA/MASS (Multi Ammunition Softkill System)
Other: Link 11 and Link 16

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skjold_class_patrol_boat

Houbei class (Type 022)

The Houbei class (Type 022) missile boat is a class in the People’s Liberation Army Navy. The first boat was launched in April 2004 by the Qiuxin Shipbuilding Factory at Shanghai. The boats incorporate stealth features and wave-piercing catamaran hulls. Approximately 83 of these missile boats are currently in service with three flotillas having been produced over a span of seven years.

General characteristics

Displacement:220 long tons (224 t) full load

Length:42.6 m (139 ft 9 in)

Beam:12.2 m (40 ft 0 in)

Draught:1.5 m (4 ft 11 in)

Propulsion:2 diesel engines @ 6,865 hp (5,119 kW) with 4 waterjet propulsors by MARI

Speed:36 knots (67 km/h; 41 mph)

Complement:12

Sensors and processing systems:

Surface search radar: 1 Type 362
Navigational radar: 1
Electro-optics: HEOS 300

Armament:

• Anti-ship missiles: 8 C-801/802/803 in friction stir welded aluminium missile launch containers or
• Land-attack missiles: 8 Hongniao missile-2 long range land attack cruise missiles.
• Surface-to-air missiles: FLS-1 surface-to-air launcher with 12 QW class MANPAD missiles
• 1 × licensed copy of KBP AO-18 6-barrel 30 mm gun (AK-630) by ZEERI

Notes:Details remain speculative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houbei_class_missile_boat