Slingsby Cadet T31 WT895

How strange to see a thread I started all those years ago be resurrected. Thanks to all the new contributors.
After this thread went dormant I did send in a Freedom of Information act request, which basically confirmed what I already knew, so nothing to add from that.

Thanks again,
John

Re the Weathersfield accident…Sailplane and Gliding, June/July 1983, p124

“A 17 year-old ATC cadet, Ian Sutton of Great Bardfield, Essex, was killed on April 16 in a T-31 when coming in to land at RAF Weathersfield, near Haverhill. His instructor, RAF Reserve Flt Lt John Knock, aged 61 of Marks Tey, near Colchester, received head and back injuries. The RAF are investigating the accident.”

This reminds me of another fatal glider accident, this time involving a RAFGSA aircraft (could have been a K-13) at RAF Kinloss in August / September 1980. The Girl that was killed was the best friend of my youngest Aunt (and her mother is still one of my Grandmother’s best friends). I’m not sure off what actually happened, but from what I heard at the time (I was 13), the pilot of the glider totally c**ked up a cable break and stalled the aircraft (He survived). My aunt’s friend was at the time was visiting her RAF boyfriend who was at Lossiemouth and had gone to Kinloss with him and his best mate to do something different. Anyhow four years later I’m at RAF Locking doing Technician training and a Girl on the course starts telling me of how her bother’s best mate’s girlfriend was killed in a glider accident at Kinloss in 1980. Small world isn’t it. Anyway does anybody have any details of this crash at Kinloss, just out of interest???

Hi Big Vern

I’ve only just come across this forum and your entry. I was the Engineer member of the RAF Board of Inquiry into this crash and I would be glad to let you have any details. Please Email me on [email]Grahams172@gmail.com[/email] if you are interested.

Apologies for resurrecting a thread which was last posted on some 6 years ago, but I too have been trying to find out more about this accident (I was at Wethersfield for an air experience flight at the time) and apart from what I have found from diligent internet searching, have found very little. I would be grateful if anyone could give me a few pointers for places to contact (for instance I have tried the http://www.aaib.gov.uk/home/index.cfm, but have yet to have a reply. Again, my reason for my research is purely personal, and hope someone can be of some help. Many thanks

This reminds me of another fatal glider accident, this time involving a RAFGSA aircraft (could have been a K-13) at RAF Kinloss in August / September 1980. The Girl that was killed was the best friend of my youngest Aunt (and her mother is still one of my Grandmother’s best friends). I’m not sure off what actually happened, but from what I heard at the time (I was 13), the pilot of the glider totally c**ked up a cable break and stalled the aircraft (He survived). My aunt’s friend was at the time was visiting her RAF boyfriend who was at Lossiemouth and had gone to Kinloss with him and his best mate to do something different. Anyhow four years later I’m at RAF Locking doing Technician training and a Girl on the course starts telling me of how her bother’s best mate’s girlfriend was killed in a glider accident at Kinloss in 1980. Small world isn’t it. Anyway does anybody have any details of this crash at Kinloss, just out of interest???

😀 Your brother certainly caused you some problems LOL.of all the bases in all the world etc etc 😀

Thanks all, that’s confirmed and clarified a few things I thought were true.

I seem to remember reading a brief report in Air Cadet news about it but memories fade. Good to hear some others recollections.

I should have mentioned it was Weathersfield in my original post. Could have also mentioned that Flt. Lt. Knock was the pilot, makes it doubly disconcerting.

Big Vern, I was in 2531 (Woodham Ferrers) squadron at the time, was too young to go to Binbrook 🙁 but made it to Stafford and Northolt the following years. Don’t recall the squadrons we were with but now I’ve found my 3822 I can tell you the dates.

Thanks again and here’s to the memory of the unfortunate cadet and pilot.

John

I missed the Stafford Camp in 83, Did the Gibraltar camp in the late August / early September instead after a guy from my lot pulled out and my Squadron failed to get a place on the Bruggen camp (which I was the nominated cadet for 😡 ) That Stafford camp did cause me some problems on the first day of my Gliding course at Wethersfield in early August 83, however. My brother was on that Camp and tried his hardest to get off with one of the first girl cadets in the East Essex Wing. She told her old man afterwards, who just happened to be the CO of 614VGS and I got a bit of Flak on the first day about it, until I told him I was not at Stafford. This story ends in the Falklands at 751 Signals Unit in 1999. On my first night on the Mountain I got chatting to a Jnr Tech Gen Tech E and asked him were he was from, He replied from a place just outside Chelmsford, which happened to be where this girl came from. I said I’d heard of the place as my brother tried to get off with a girl from there, to which he replied ‘I Know, I’m her brother’.

It’s a very small world.

Thanks everyone

Thanks all, that’s confirmed and clarified a few things I thought were true.

I seem to remember reading a brief report in Air Cadet news about it but memories fade. Good to hear some others recollections.

I should have mentioned it was Weathersfield in my original post. Could have also mentioned that Flt. Lt. Knock was the pilot, makes it doubly disconcerting.

Big Vern, I was in 2531 (Woodham Ferrers) squadron at the time, was too young to go to Binbrook 🙁 but made it to Stafford and Northolt the following years. Don’t recall the squadrons we were with but now I’ve found my 3822 I can tell you the dates.

Thanks again and here’s to the memory of the unfortunate cadet and pilot.

John

That explains the Hairy Mary Battledress that you’re wearing in the photo, they were phased out about a few months before I enrolled (June 1979)

:rolleyes: Typical of my luck,the whole uniform was thick and itchy,in fact i used to wear pyjama bottoms under the trousers to wear them in and get rid of the itchy texture,horrible uniform 😡

Hi BigVern,i left in 1979 when i started work,i only managed to get on one main camp because of my age at the time.

That explains the Hairy Mary Battledress that you’re wearing in the photo, they were phased out about a few months before I enrolled (June 1979)

Hi BigVern,i left in 1979 when i started work,i only managed to get on one main camp because of my age at the time.

Like buses ,you wait for one and then – – – – – – – – – – – – 🙂

By the way trumper, when did you leave the Cadets? The reason I ask is that we did a Night Ex with Saffron Warden up near Audley End in Sept 1983. We may have crossed paths 🙂

Like buses ,you wait for one and then – – – – – – – – – – – – 🙂

I have sent it again so you may end up with it twice LOL, 😀

Trumper

Did get it twice 😀 😀 😀 Not sure if the aircraft is WT895 (all of 614’s aircraft were in the Red/White/LAG scheme when I started flying from Debden in early 1981). However, I’m certain that the pilot in the photo is Flt Lt John Knock (he did have a lot of grey hair).

Bigvern

I have sent it again so you may end up with it twice LOL, 😀

E Mail sent 🙂

Trumper, E-mail not Rx’ed on Yahoo 😡 Please try

Trumper

Scan it and send to [email]Bigvern66uk@Yahoo.co.uk[/email], I’m sure I can ID the instuctor if he was at Debden or Wethersfield when I flew out of there.

Bigvern

E Mail sent 🙂

I was in 1824 Saffron Walden Squadron,i went gliding at Debden and the name John Knock rang a bell.
It would,ve been late 1970’s, i am trying to find my old ATC log book .
I have a photo here of our squadron with the instructor and a glider but i am not sure whether it is him or not.
Rather than put the photo on here i can scan it and send to someone who could confirm whether it is the instructor and the glider.

Trumper

Scan it and send to. I’m sure I can ID the instuctor if he was at Debden or Wethersfield when I flew out of there.

Bigvern

I was in 1824 Saffron Walden Squadron,i went gliding at Debden and the name John Knock rang a bell.
It would,ve been late 1970’s, i am trying to find my old ATC log book .
I have a photo here of our squadron with the instructor and a glider but i am not sure whether it is him or not.
Rather than put the photo on here i can scan it and send to someone who could confirm whether it is the instructor and the glider.

From ‘Lost to service’ by C Cummings,

’17-Apr-83, [SIZE=1]WT895 Kirby Cadet Mk3, 614 GS, Wethersfield.

Broke up in air during aerobatics.

Air Cadet Ian Sutton 17

It is believed that Flight Lieutenant John Knock RAVR(T) died subsequently from his injuries.’

Geoff.

Cheers for the memory jog, Geoff.

I first heard of the accident on the 19th at my ATC Squadron (1096 Bishops Stortford) and by that time the instructor had died (either during the Saturday nignt or early during the Sunday), It was John Knock (I was going to put that name on my first post then had a bit of a brain fade, due to the fact that 614VGS had two RAFVR(T) Flight Lieutenants with the first name of John (Knock and Miller, CO’s first name was John (Martin) as well). One of them was at a dinning out night done for My ATC Squadron CO in 1987 (got invited as an ex Cadet) and though it was John Knock for some reason (It was John Miller on digging out a menu card this morning). The Cadet that was killed was a friend of a friend on 999 Squadron that I met at a couple of ATC camps at Binbrook and Swanton Morley in 1982 and 1981 respectively (I had met Ian Sutton once during the camps or on an exercise we did with Dummow in Hatfield forest).

As for the cause of the accident, what is listed is not the story that I was told by my Squadron’s adult WO Les Hudson (who was on the staff of 614VGS at the time (died in 1984) or what the Instructors at 614VGS told me about the accident when I did my Gilding proficiency course at Wethersfield in the August of 83. Somebody was telling porkies at the time as what is listed in the book is not what I heard.

As for the aircraft that crashed, It must be the only glider on 614 VGS that I never flew in during my time in the cadets. They had 3 Mk3 Cadets and 2 TX Mk 1 Sedburghs on strength at Debden and Wethersfield and I flew in all of them except WT895 (most of the AEF flights in Sedburghs (WB988 and XW150) with the exception of 2 flights in Mk 3 WT917). During the Gilding proficiency course all the flights were in Cadets WT917, WT913 and WE790 with my Solo in WT917 on 14.08.06 (Last line on the last page of my 3822 Glider flying log).