By: David Burke - 21st January 2016 at 18:54
Sorry its been a while ! I now have the log books which confirm the glider to be Martin-Hearn built Slingsby Tutor BGA469 . It was MHT/RT/10 .
This is the third MH Tutor that I have had an involvement with ! If only it was so easy to get a T.21 !
By: David Burke - 2nd October 2014 at 20:50
Hopefully the log books will turn up which will cast a bit more light on the subject!
By: WB981 - 2nd October 2014 at 20:37
I can’t add much to what has been already said on this thread as I am currently living on the other side of the globe some 8,000 miles from my records. I’m not sure where Eric is coming from in post 16 with regard to FF & RF numbers as the only Slingsby glider which had a detachable rear fuselage is the T.38 Grasshopper – and yes there are many of these where the serials don’t match.
I’m finding this thread quite interesting so keep posting!
By: K8B - 2nd October 2014 at 12:09
The closest number to 441 I can find is SSK/FF439 which belonged to a T.7 Cadet TX.1 no. VM521 (later BGA 705).
By: ericmunk - 2nd October 2014 at 09:02
The main Fuselage number should have retained the original identity.
I have a T21 in the shop that has had three different front fuselage fitted (accident repairs), with two (FF) fuselage numbers, the last one no longer legible. It is not a problem. The framenumbers are not the s/n associated with the aircraft’s ID for registration.
On T38’s it was common practise to even exchange whole front and/or rear fuselages in repairs, with the paperwork only retaining the identity of the aircraft.
Quite a lot of Slingsby aircraft actually had FF and RF numbers that were separate. Then there’s the composite aircraft (e.g. the T38 that was built with a new fuselage and refurbed T7 wings, compiled from whatever major sections were ready at the time using the old and new numbers mixed).
Slingsby frame numbers are a bit of a minefield.
By: Biggles of 266 - 2nd October 2014 at 01:37
Having done a fair bit of research on Slingsby numbering with t31’s
My understanding is this:
When an aircraft was built and delivered into RAF Service new, The main number on the fuselage in this case SSK/FF/441 would have been repeated on all components.
In this case the rudder: SSK/R/441.
The wings were also numbered at the factory, and the Starboard wing number was double the Fuselage number, and the Port wing was the same number minus 1
In this case Stbd SSK/OW/882 and Port SSK/OW/881
In service it was common practice to exchange components between gliders if one suffered damage, and the exchanged items were then repaired and exchanged again. So it is common to find aircraft with mismatching rudders, elevators, ailerons, even wings. The number on the component can only really tell us which aircraft it was originally fitted too when new. The main Fuselage number should have retained the original identity.
Most airscraft conform to this pattern, and I have been able to confirm this on a many airframes. However, there are always exceptions, especially when there seem to have been major refurbs. For instance a T31 Motor conversion (the first one) has the fuselage numbered: Rep C.766 This would appear to be a T8 fuselage, repaired, and modified to a T31. The other odball is the T31 in the RAF Museum, Hendon XA302, which should be referenced SSK/FF1449, but is actually numbered: SSK/FF/114. Admitedly the paper square may be obscured, and missing the 9, but it looks like a typo of 1149 instead of 1449.
I hope that is useful.
By: David Burke - 1st October 2014 at 19:16
Thank you -interesting to know ! This is number five in terms of Tutors saved !
By: G-ASEA - 1st October 2014 at 16:42
There are some Slingsby drawings with the VGC. I don’t Know how many yet as I have just taken over as the Archivist.
Dave
By: David Burke - 1st October 2014 at 14:38
Done !!!
By: ericmunk - 1st October 2014 at 14:28
You’d need to clear out your Inbox for the PM first then.
By: David Burke - 1st October 2014 at 14:16
The wings have been poorly stored with mice having made themselves home in one !! A critical review of the wings will happen this weekend – after that I feel that another set will be the way forward! Everything including Mod 80 will be addressed.
I would be interested to know what is around spares wise -Eric if you wish PM me regards gliders in general.
By: ericmunk - 1st October 2014 at 08:17
Eric -I am inclined to give this one a go to fly again! Whilst its not in great condition -it will be a good exercise for a friend who wishes to extend his woodworking skills!
That would be nice. They fly as they look, but they’re great fun! If any parts are missing, let me know and I’ll see what’s there. And like Dave pointed out: watch out for Mod 80, lots of work.
Eric
By: G-ASEA - 1st October 2014 at 06:45
If it is going to fly. Has it had Mod 80 done on the spar?
Dave
By: David Burke - 30th September 2014 at 21:48
Eric -I am inclined to give this one a go to fly again! Whilst its not in great condition -it will be a good exercise for a friend who wishes to extend his woodworking skills!
By: ericmunk - 30th September 2014 at 20:20
Yeah, I have been working on a T21-wing that was MHL-built for some months now. There’s a steep amount of Slingsby-built ribs in there not matching maintenance records, and probably in there since manufacture. The MHL-number is also out of sequence for the number on the line.
By: Jon H - 30th September 2014 at 20:17
Non-sequential c/n numbers appears to have been a fixture of MHL built giders well!
At Hooton we now have Tutor BGA.466 (7th built) and BGA.473 (12th built), yet the fuselage of 466 is MHL/F/24 whilst 473 is MHL/F/31 – so 5 apart on the production line but 7 apart on c/n’s!
Jon
By: ericmunk - 30th September 2014 at 19:55
Thanks Eric ! Yes thats the rudder ! I have just picked up a Tutor which looks the spitting image of BGA466 ! However I delivered that to Hooton Park a few weeks ago so I need to do some detective work on this one!
There’s one or two Slingsby expert on the forum here, so fingers crossed. The c/n of Slingsby-built gliders of the older generations are a bit of a headache, and are rarely in the gliders themselves. A FF-number could help if it is in sequence. Is it complete, or would you be needing parts to get it up to display standard?
By: David Burke - 30th September 2014 at 19:21
Thanks Eric ! Yes thats the rudder ! I have just picked up a Tutor which looks the spitting image of BGA466 ! However I delivered that to Hooton Park a few weeks ago so I need to do some detective work on this one!
By: ericmunk - 30th September 2014 at 19:09
Any Tutor experts out there that can shed some light on the number ???
Sounds like the serial number for the rudder of the aircraft.
SSK= Slingsby Sailplanes Kirbymoorside
R = Rudder
441 = s/n of the rudder
Most Slingsby’s have a number likes this on major components:
SSK/FF/.. is front fuselage
SSK/RF/.. is rear fuselage
SSK/OW/.. is (outer) wing
SSK/A/.. is aileron
etc.
The numbers can usually be found on a piece of paper framed in a bit of perspex on a squarish sunk bit in the plywood.
Some SSK/FF/.. numbers may be matched against individual aircraft. Most SSK/… numebrs have been changed over so often they are no longer traceable.
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September 30, 2014 at 7:03 pm