São Paulo status?

The Brazilian Government has approved the Brazilian Navy plans for 2 NAe of 50,000 tons. First one in 2028.

The Brazilian oil reserves in 2020 are expected to be approx. US$ 7 trillion. This huge reserve can attract a lot of threats…

Brazil is lucky to have enough funds just to keep the 50 year old Sao Paulo and a hand full of Skyhawks in Service. So, honestly 2 New Large Aircraft Carriers seem to be extremely optimistic!

Honestly, considering Brazil Defense Budget and the likely threat. I personally doubt the case for a Aircraft Carrier in the case of the Brazilian Navy.

The Brazilian Government has approved the Brazilian Navy plans for 2 NAe of 50,000 tons. First one in 2028.

The Brazilian oil reserves in 2020 are expected to be approx. US$ 7 trillion. This huge reserve can attract a lot of threats…

Honestly, considering Brazil Defense Budget and the likely threat. I personally doubt the case for a Aircraft Carrier in the case of the Brazilian Navy.

Looks like Sao Paolo is not about to return to sea…

Three crew burned and leak aboard Sao Paolo
www.naval.com.br/blog/2014/01/31/tres-tripulantes-queimados-e-vazamento-no-porta-avioes-sao-paulo-a-12

Long and short of it: She spends 3 days doing circles in Guanabara Bay to work-up. Has problems with steam venting (3 minor injuries), the air-con doesn’t work, water infiltrates into a mess making it hard to feed the crew, and finally an oil leak forces her to drop anchor to clean up the spillage… oh, and the anchor then gets stuck meaning she can’t return to port!

All the while, she’s within earshot of the coast, with the crew moaning to their families and the CO forced to enforce a ban on cellphone communications…

I do hope she successfully completes working up and actually becomes operational again, but this is not promising.

The Brazilian Navy has officialy refuted some claims from the “O Dia” newspaper. By the way, this newspaper is not respected at all in Rio de Janeiro and Brazil.
Official Note of the Navy on the aircraft carrier ‘Sao Paulo’
Opinion from a Brazilian Navy official (reformed) :
Undisciplined or Patriot?

Ouch!!

Looks like Sao Paolo is not about to return to sea…

Three crew burned and leak aboard Sao Paolo
www.naval.com.br/blog/2014/01/31/tres-tripulantes-queimados-e-vazamento-no-porta-avioes-sao-paulo-a-12

Long and short of it: She spends 3 days doing circles in Guanabara Bay to work-up. Has problems with steam venting (3 minor injuries), the air-con doesn’t work, water infiltrates into a mess making it hard to feed the crew, and finally an oil leak forces her to drop anchor to clean up the spillage… oh, and the anchor then gets stuck meaning she can’t return to port!

All the while, she’s within earshot of the coast, with the crew moaning to their families and the CO forced to enforce a ban on cellphone communications…

I do hope she successfully completes working up and actually becomes operational again, but this is not promising.

The 2028 time line is within the same one that Brazil is projecting for its first SSN as well (2025).

If they do go in that direction, to get anything really out of that force will mean at least two T-AOEs per carrier and battle group. That’s a buy in price that really climbs real fast if you want to get the most out of the combat ship side of the equation.

Since you didn’t bother with translating for us, we have to machine-translate what you quoted (and thus get a crappy quess as to meaning):

Is in progress the adoption of the Program of Obtaining Navios-Aerodromos , the PRONAE, which provides for the replacement of the NAe “Sao Paulo” until 2028, which will be achieved with the construction of a Navio-Aerodromo with approximately 50,000 tons of displacement, endowed with catapult for launching of aircraft and equipment downtime for your recollection;

The long-term, Brazil intends to acquire two aircraft carrier of 50,000 tonnes, in the context of the program PRONAE. It seems that were consulted the Navantia, Fincantieri, DCNS, BAE Systems and Gibbs & Cox, in order to obtain information about this project.

Any word on the replacement for the Sao Paulo???

From official message of Brazilian Navy :

– Está em andamento a aprovação do Programa de Obtenção de Navios-Aeródromos, o PRONAE, que prevê a substituição do NAe “São Paulo” até 2028, o que será alcançado com a construção de um Navio-Aeródromo com cerca de 50.000 toneladas de deslocamento, dotado de catapulta para lançamento de aeronaves e aparelho de parada para o seu recolhimento;

Article “Brasil cada vez mais perto das suas ambições navais” (from Jane’s) :

A longo prazo, o Brasil pretende adquirir dois porta-aviões de 50.000 toneladas, no âmbito do programa PRONAE. Ao que parece foram consultados a Navantia, Fincantieri, DCNS, BAE Systems e Gibbs & Cox, afim de obter informações sobre este projeto.

So Brazilian Navy expects to have 2 aircraf carriers with 50 thousand ton., the first in 2028. The official RFI will be sent in the following years.

Any word on the replacement for the Sao Paulo???

I understand that the two-seat Skyhawk was unable to operate from a colossus/majestic class aircraft carrier, so two part question: did Brazil purchase any two-seat Skyhawks and if so are they able to operate from São Paulo?

1998: authority to operate carrier based fixed wing aircraft for the Navy was granted by Presidential decree No. 2538.
1999: acquisition of 20 A-4KU Skyhawks and three TA-4KU trainer aircraft from the Kuwait Air Force
2000: The first AF-1 (A-4KU) flight in Brazil, first touch-and-go on the Brazilian Navy carrier Minas Gerais
2001: The first arrested landing and catapult launch from Minas Gerais of an A-4

Minas Gerais remained in service until 2001, when she was replaced by NAe São Paulo. The São Paulo was purchased while still operational, an unusual process for such a large ship. She was received by the Brazilian Navy and was incorporated into the Brazilian Navy on 15 November 2000. Since 2001, by Brazilian invitation, pilot qualification tests of the Argentine Navy’s Dassault-Breguet Super Étendards and S-2T Turbo Trackers take place on the Brazilian Navy carrier São Paulo, as Argentina now lacks a carrier of their own. 12 singleseat and 3 twoseat Skyhawks to be modernized and kept in service through 2025.

1. Brazil bought 20 single-seat and 3 two-seat Skyhawks from Kuwait.

2. The main constraint for the TA-4G on Melbourne was that the extra weight in the forward fuselage meant that it couldn’t “pick up the nose” fast enough to make a safe bolter if the hook failed to grab an arresting wire.

At first glance, it would seem that São Paulo’s greater size would change this, but appearances can be deceiving.

HMAS Melbourne had an overall length of 701.5′, and a 482’ total angle deck length.
Clemenceau/Foch (São Paulo) has an overall length of 869′, and a 567′ angle deck length.

However, the determining dimension is the distance from the last arresting wire to the end of the angle deck.

Melbourne had a “last wire to end of angle deck” length of 315′.
Clemenceau/Foch (São Paulo) has a “last wire to end of angle deck” length of 320′.

So, it appears that the same constraint may well hold for São Paulo… except that the max speed of Melbourne was 24.5 knots, while São Paulo has a max speed on ~32 knots… meaning that there is a 7 knot or so lower aircraft-to-deck speed for aircraft landing aboard São Paulo, so there would be a little more time for the nose to lift in a bolter.

Just to throw more confusion into the mix, the USN operated A-4s, including two-seat TA-4Fs & TA-4Js, from Essex class carriers for decades… and the Essex class carriers had an angle deck length of 520′, a “last wire to end of angle deck” length of 300′, and a top speed of ~31 knots for the angle-deck modernized ships.

Final answer… I don’t know.

I understand that the two-seat Skyhawk was unable to operate from a colossus/majestic class aircraft carrier, so two part question: did Brazil purchase any two-seat Skyhawks and if so are they able to operate from São Paulo?

Portuguese-BR article :
DCNS realiza verificação na catapulta de vante do NAe ‘São Paulo’ – 22/12/2013
Translation :
DCNS performs the verification of forward catapult of the aircraft carrier ‘Sao Paulo’

Anyone have the latest on the Brazilian aircraft carrier São Paulo? Has she completed her modernization?

Wiki:
During 2005–2010, the São Paulo underwent extensive modernization. The carrier first returned to sea in December 2009 following the completion of upgrade work in July 2009. At the end of 2010, sea trials began, and as of 2011 the São Paulo had been evaluated by the CIASA (Inspection Commission and Training Advisory). She is expected to rejoin the fleet in late 2013.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_aircraft_carrier_S%C3%A3o_Paulo_(A12)

June 2013:
The Sao Paulo hasn’t deployed properly for some years and it is unlikely that she will ever sail again. Defence sources in Brazil said the nation’s fleet intends replacing the carrier Sao Paulo in 2025.
http://www.warshipsifr.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=123:news-digest-from-the-june-2013-edition&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=18

December 2013
At the request of the Brazilian Navy, DCNS performed a ship check on the forward catapult of the aircraft carrier São Paulo. The steam catapult, which already performed over 5000 launches, is a key element for the aircraft carrier capability. The goal of this intervention was to perform diagnostics and trials for the Brazilian Navy to restore the catapult’s potential. Works were achieved in November at the naval premises of Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. After the team’s intervention, the catapult was dry-fired twice, demonstrating the expected performance. The Brazilian authorities expressed satisfaction
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/year-2013-news/december-2013-navy-naval-forces-maritime-industry-technology-security-global-news/1440-sao-paulo-catapult-a-dcns-team-on-the-bridge-of-the-brazilian-navy-aircraft-carrier.html

Dec 2013:
Brazilian Aircraft Carrier Restored to Full Capacity
http://navaltoday.com/2013/12/23/brazilian-aircraft-carrier-restored-to-full-capacity/

So, interestingly, Brazil may seek to have a replacement by the time IN commissions its second ADS/IAC. The design of the second carrier features significant changes from the first, INS Vikrant, like an increase in displacement to over 65,000 tons and using a steam-powered CATOBAR system. Perhaps Brazil will take over the Vikramaditya, or obtain a version IAC2?

What is the Gripen’s take off run, compared to Mig29K/Mig35, under comparable conditions?

Fulcrum A
take-off run 250 m (820 ft) at normal take-off weight
http://sirviper.com/index.php?page=fighters/mig-29/mig-29a

Mig 29K
The take-off run on a carrier deck equipped with a bow ski jump is estimated as 125 – 195 meters
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Aviation/Aircraft/125-Mig-29k.html

Gripen
take-off run 400 m at max. take-off weight
http://www.militaryaviation.eu/fighter/Saab/Gripen.htm