Something I've wondered about for a long time

Moderator Message

In light of the tone of some of the OP’s subsequent contributions to the thread, I’m calling “troll” on this one.

Also “Godwin” for the gratuitous Hitler reference.

Thread closed.

I agree that there is a lack of focus on the long term development of European airports but there are many reasons for this, on the other hand I think that you maybe overstating the involvement that European government has in Airbus.

I am no expert on this but as far as I know the amount of public money directly spent on Airbus is very little, if any. (i did say I know very little about this didn’t I?) 😀 What ever the amount is my perception is that very little is spent and public perception about public money is all that really matters.

As for airports remember, as others have said, European airports are very different that those in the US. They are usually privately owned, or at least run as if they are privately owned, with airlines sharing facilities such as gates and baggage handling.

There future development has to be commercially viable. I do not know why some US airports have so many runways when some very large Euro ones only have one or two, but you can bet is largely down to money. An extra runway does not guarantee extra income and certainly that is one reason why the a380 is a good option for European aviation.

It is nearly 4 in the morning, I am a bit drunk and not really an expert but I hope some of this helps. Never be afraid to ask a question on this forum, even if you are not sure what the question is, there are some very knowledgeable people around here and one of them will figure it out.

Yes, T5 is the kind of thing I’m talking about. Billions go to AI, yet little gets done to the airports. Its like Hitler building the Volkswagen and not the autobahn.

I’m sorry. I’ll just shut up now. I don’t intend to be a troll and don’t appear to be able to express myself very well. I just found the forum a few weeks ago and appreciate the level of expertise here.

2004 ACI Data shows 952,000 movements for ORD, while CDG and FRA combined have 1,002,000.

I guess these figures do shed some light on why Europeans think the A380 is so important. More people on a fewer number of flights seems to be their goal. Interestingly, the US airlines say that passengers prefer more choices, ie., more flights.

I didn’t intend to focus only on jetways. Most of the infrastructure is tied together. Terminal space, parking, surface travel access (something the European airports excel at). But the bottom line is that more infrastructure is needed almost everywhere. Someone once said the definition of an airport was “continuous construction project.” Look at the ambitious plan for ORD (12-16 Billion), the huge airports at DEN and DFW, and the plans to add two more runways at IAD. What is happening in Europe by comparison and why doesn’t anyone in the aviation enthusiast community seem to care?

But… What’s your point?! You’re using a lot of words and a few figures, but actually saying very little. Can LHR’s T5 be considered part of the improvements you speak of? What exactly do you mean by “why doesn’t anyone in the aviation enthusiast community seem to care?” You haven’t actually specified, as such, what we’re supposed to care about, all you’ve said, in a very vague and round-about way, is that certain US airports have major expansion plans. Still, I’m failing to see how your approaching this.

Paul

2004 ACI Data shows 952,000 movements for ORD, while CDG and FRA combined have 1,002,000.

I guess these figures do shed some light on why Europeans think the A380 is so important. More people on a fewer number of flights seems to be their goal. Interestingly, the US airlines say that passengers prefer more choices, ie., more flights.

I didn’t intend to focus only on jetways. Most of the infrastructure is tied together. Terminal space, parking, surface travel access (something the European airports excel at). But the bottom line is that more infrastructure is needed almost everywhere. Someone once said the definition of an airport was “continuous construction project.” Look at the ambitious plan for ORD (12-16 Billion), the huge airports at DEN and DFW, and the plans to add two more runways at IAD. What is happening in Europe by comparison and why doesn’t anyone in the aviation enthusiast community seem to care?

What makes you think ORD is any better than LHR, AMS, FRA or CDG? Last time I checked, ORD and the likes suffered pretty bad departure delays, gate holds, etc at times. And believe it or not, these airports all have jetways, ground electric and fuel hydrants.

Funding has nothing to do with it. Often in the US, airport developments are funded by city/county/state bonds and facilities like gates are leased to airlines on a long term basis. In Europe, many big airports are either privately owned in which case development funding is obtained on commercial markets or are owned by the cities they serve, and airlines pay on a per-use basis for facilities like gates. Airbus is not state funded – a very few European states merely guarantee the loans Airbus receives.

Andy

My, it seems the defensiveness for all things Airbus runs deeper than even I thought possible. My apologies to all who were offended.

The common element is the public money. I don’t argue that Airbus is a waste, only that the investment might return more if it was placed on infrastructure versus manufacturing. Something of a slight modification of the old guns versus butter discussion from an economics class.

Yes, we know.

Everything is bigger in Texas……… :rolleyes:

I fail to see the relationship between the funding arrangements of an aircraft manufacturer and the relative size and capacity of airports in the USA and in Europe.

Perhaps you could enlighten us?

I have to agree. From your post, it appears you’ve come to the conclusion Airbus as a company are a waste of time and money because very few Eurpoean airports have as many gates with fuel fixtures as their US counterparts.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but as far as I’m aware there are a reasonable number of US operators flying Airbus aircraft. Assuming you’re aware of this, I’m failing to see the logic in your approach here!

Paul

Yes, we know.

Everything is bigger in Texas……… :rolleyes:

I fail to see the relationship between the funding arrangements of an aircraft manufacturer and the relative size and capacity of airports in the USA and in Europe.

Perhaps you could enlighten us?