Spirited A26 Display at Leuchars – And a Chat With The Pilot Afterwards

Loctite

Thank you for contributing to the thread, Invader, and for weathering inaccurate posts. SHF has, and is, making a significant contribution to the safe operation of historic aircraft in Europe. it was a pleasure to meet you.

Thread now locked at the request of post initiator.

Mark – Moderator

Safety

From Warbirds Worldwide No 12:

“SHF have a clear policy on safety. Their aim of flying the aircraft is never undertaken at the expense of safety. This philosophy begins on the ground. No compromise is made in repairing any mechanical malfunction if it affects flight safety. The aircraft are grounded if they cannot be ready in time to undertake a display….Of equal importance is the vetting of aircrew carried out by the SHF. Pilot experience, currency and discipline is paramount , the aim is to execute every display on time, in a disciplined manner and with flight safety a a paramount consideration. “SHF,…” says Anders Saether….”is not a training ground for pilots who want to show off their skill at the weekend”.
Although piloting is a never ending learning process, the SHF pilots have all proven themselves elsewhere. The combination of skill and maturity is an absolute requirement. Pilot display limitations are individual and set with good margins. All displays are briefed and executed with military precision and always as planned and approved prior to the display.”

Thank you for contributing to the thread, Invader, and for weathering inaccurate posts. SHF has, and is, making a significant contribution to the safe operation of historic aircraft in Europe. it was a pleasure to meet you.

Who ever this was [if it happened] is a dope!

Please keep to the point! It’s a discussion about aerobatic manouvers in a particular type of aircraft. Please do not call people names..
This person you call a “dope” is a good friend of mine and is most certainly NOT a “dope” and among the top 2-3 pilots I have seen displaying at an airshow… (I’ve been to F. Legends..)

I am happy to see that the moderators are watching this thread..

Originally Posted by Seafuryfan
I vaguely remember that picture, ZRX61. IIRC from the background of the photo, the aircraft was at height being photo’d side on from a chase plane. I am supposing that the manoeuvre was started at a fast enough speed, to enable the top of the loop to be reached at a safe flying speed. There would also presumably be plenty of airspace below the machine in order to effect a recovery.

I don’t think the SHF ever did complete loops at airshows, although they did cuban eights and barrel rolls in their routine up until the mid 90s. But I seem to remember that one of the CAF B-26 Marauder pilots (possibly the late Vernon Thorpe) visited Norway and advised them against doing that.

:dev2: Who ever this was [if it happened] is a dope!

I don’t personally care if I ever take my aircraft to airshows again. Didn’t buy them for that. Actually they can be a pain in the butt….

With Feeding Frenzy we found the easiest way to keep people off the aircraft was placing a clock with a VERY loud tick inside one of the dummy 500lb bombs hanging under the wing next to HVAR rockets… 😉

Merlin

The post more related to a couple of points about ODs experiance and aircraft ownership. Also my observations of his operations.

I am also supportive of the way he flies and operates his aircraft. I don’t really want to get into the nicities of A26 flying as I AM NOT AT ALL QUAL to speak in detail on that subject. OD has his own opinions and he speaks for himself on those.

Regards
John P

I think it would do a lot of people a lot of good to engage their brains and do a little research before letting fly when someone like OD gives them some good – well meant advice.

The guy is a dope. The A-26 AFM says that aerobatics manoeuvres are “strictly” prohibited. Sorry, no glory to a person who ignores this…

Sorry Setter but as the quote above proves it was OD who came in all guns blazing and didnt have a clue.As this quote below from Invader proves.

I have NEVER done Cuban Eights or Barrel rolls in my display routine. In ANY country.
We can discuss the fact that I banked more than 60 degrees at the top of the wing-overs. But at that point with approx. 1G….I don’t see that it puts to much stress on the airplane.

and also

But….giving me credit for the way the A-26 has been displayed earlier….and by other pilots…is not something I like to read.

I think this does say it all really. Nobody is questioning OD technical ability or his own safety record but he seemed to want to launch an attack on what was a safe flying display and wasnt willing to listen to anyone else. He was in actual fact wrong about the display in the end as was OSH.

As I said before if there was any wrong doing then the sky boss would have pulled the display there and then and would not have let them finish the display. I have heard of this happen to a few military pilots before.

I noticed OD left this topic when everyone was told to cool it well now that all the facts are here on the board maybe somebody should invite him to have his say again in light of the facts being made known.

Hi All

As an aquaintance of Mr Duck let me just say a few things.

Oscar is an extreamly experianced professional in many fields of Aviation including ATC and safety and has worked long and hard to keep people safe.

I have seen many displays by Oscar for many years in his various aircraft including B25, Harvard, T28, O1, O2 and TBM – His displays are energetic but safe and he keeps within the capabilities of himself and the aircraft – nobody would leave without getting their monies worth.

I for one enjoy the fact that he participates in airshows and his fantistic contribution to the movement as a whole. There are not many people around who have a trans Pacific B25 flight in their logs etc. He was there when Warbirds were getting started in this country and is the reason – with others- that they continue to blossom in rising numbers and attract new players.

I think it would do a lot of people a lot of good to engage their brains and do a little research before letting fly when someone like OD gives them some good – well meant advice.

regards
John p

First I must say that I am glad that those who saw the display at Leuchars did not feel that it was unsafe.

But….giving me credit for the way the A-26 has been displayed earlier….and by other pilots…is not something I like to read.

I have flown the Invader since 1991. Flown displays in accordance to my UK Display Authorization since 1994.

I have NEVER done Cuban Eights or Barrel rolls in my display routine. In ANY country.
We can discuss the fact that I banked more than 60 degrees at the top of the wing-overs. But at that point with approx. 1G….I don’t see that it puts to much stress on the airplane.

There are many other questions under this string….witch I can come back to later if someone has a specific interest to that.

PS. Mr. OSH: I never flew over the crowd, or got warned on the R/T for flying over the crowd.
So please get the facts straight before you post it here.

Well….that’s all I wanted to say here at this time.

I want to thank Seafuryfan for the nice talk we had after the show. And I am more than happy to talk to anybody about the Invader or the display if you should see me in the future.

Fly safe!

Never managed to go to Bergen for the show this fall, and thus missed it. Saw you guys coming over Oslo on your way back that sunday. Haven’t seen the 26 fly for many years, but hope to see it display next year. Is the Aircraft in Norway at present? Has the flying come to an end for the season now? Will it stay outside, or has someone offered room and board for it?

T J

Thanks Invader for replying to this post and for having the time to talk to fans after the display I only wish I had been in a position to discuss the aircraft with you.

As I had already said in my other post a very safe well flown and well displayed routine. I liked the fact that the aircraft was almost rolled when banked as it is not often we see such a move with historics these day. Well at least the larger ones anyway.

I stand by all my previous post.

Please people can we only deal with facts here is yet another thread that casts a shadow over the forum on the subject of fact and fiction on forums.

Its exactly this sort of thing that get people sued.

Invader.

Thansk very much for your input into the debate. It is much appreciated by this reader.

My personal comments.

First I must say that I am glad that those who saw the display at Leuchars did not feel that it was unsafe.

But….giving me credit for the way the A-26 has been displayed earlier….and by other pilots…is not something I like to read.

I have flown the Invader since 1991. Flown displays in accordance to my UK Display Authorization since 1994.

I have NEVER done Cuban Eights or Barrel rolls in my display routine. In ANY country.
We can discuss the fact that I banked more than 60 degrees at the top of the wing-overs. But at that point with approx. 1G….I don’t see that it puts to much stress on the airplane.

There are many other questions under this string….witch I can come back to later if someone has a specific interest to that.

PS. Mr. OSH: I never flew over the crowd, or got warned on the R/T for flying over the crowd.
So please get the facts straight before you post it here.

Well….that’s all I wanted to say here at this time.

I want to thank Seafuryfan for the nice talk we had after the show. And I am more than happy to talk to anybody about the Invader or the display if you should see me in the future.

Fly safe!

Hey Gents. Let’s lighten up a bit here please.

Mark – moderator hat on. 🙂

I don’t personally care if I ever take my aircraft to airshows again. Didn’t buy them for that. Actually they can be a pain in the butt. The organisers and other hangers on seem to think that these aircraft cost nothing to own or run..

I’m now into having fun for me, my family and friends…

The whole point has been that this guy/s don’t or haven’t stayed within the limits at all times. These limits are clear in the aircraft flight manual – end of story.

I think you will find that the Leuchars display which started this topic was displayed with in the limits I must have missed the part where he did Aerobatic moves. I dont think the aircraft pulled much G at all to be honest.

Ray Hanna was not implying by the way that you “exceed” the limits.

No but he sure as hell meant test the limits.

The whole point is that people like you who spend a few “quids” every no and again to watch us who have spent lots of “quids” should not expect anything more than a fly safe operation.

People like us contribute to people like you to allow you to show off you perfectly flown aircraft. If all crowds lost interest in your particular typr of aircraft and we didnt bother to turn up to see the display then where would you be then. I must admit this is very unlikely to happen but something to think about. I would imagine you need volounteers to help maintain and clean your aircraft. Where would you be without them.

If I am ever at the same show that you are flying at and I presume you do own and operate an aircraft please remind me to switch off my camera and turn away from the display line until your slot has passed as I would not want to watch such as person as the like of you and would not wish you to see the likes of me watching you. For fear of you display being anything less than perfect.

That said I wish you many many more safe flights and you are right all anyone wants at any time is a safe journey no matter what mode of transport you have.

Well,not quite—he was warned on the R/T for flying over the crowd.

Must have blinked when this happened.

either end of the crowd is fair game to transition as far as I know and if we want to be smart about it the whole airshow is performed OVER the crowd ie the incoming visitor traffic which has mostly to travel in through and over the flight line.

How did you hear of this warning.

OZplane.

Glad you don’t work for me. The whole point has been that this guy/s don’t or haven’t stayed within the limits at all times. These limits are clear in the aircraft flight manual – end of story. If it says OK then it is and nothing else.

Ray Hanna was not implying by the way that you “exceed” the limits.

Today when we fly the bad guys aren’t chasing us. Surviving something does not make it right. The whole point is that people like you who spend a few “quids” every no and again to watch us who have spent lots of “quids” should not expect anything more than a fly safe operation. Suggest you take up watching “survivor” or the like if you want stupidity.

You know what?

All I was interested in was the pilot flew a very precise, safe and well displayed flight. And he and his crew landed safely without a hitch.

Well,not quite—he was warned on the R/T for flying over the crowd.

I can see both sides of this argument. However there I am in early 1945 coasting in over France in my A-26 which has already done 40 missions so isn’t pristine. Suddenly I’m bounced by FW190s so what do I think? The Flight Manual says I can’t pull more than “x” g so I have to sit here and get shot at. I don’t think that would work so I do all that’s necessary to shake off the 190s and surprise, surprise the wings are still on.
Now I realise that there’s a world of difference between that scenario and a peacetime Scottish airshow but as long as they stay within limits where’s the problem?
I remember a public meeting at Duxford for the local “protestors” when Ray Hanna stated that all the UK warbirds were capable of pulling far more “g” than was ever necessary to display them in an exciting fashion. That will do for me.

Check out the aircraft training manual…says it all. :p