Spitfire and Merlin fans this will make you cry!

I can see both sides of this debate, especially having seen more than my fair share of bent Merlins in museums around the country…and also having been involved with a museum with a bent Merlin!

However, the provenance of this engine would have swung me to the preservation side of the debate. Reading Al Deere’s Nine Lives as a kid helped spark my interest in the Battle of Britain period, helped along by the fact that my grandparents lived in a house built on part of the old Hornchurch aerodrome. I don’t see Deere as a celebrity, but more for the Kiwi who gave this country great service with what was a very distinguished career. I think that a tangible relic of that career would have been well worth preserving. As Baz62 says, there would have been numerous institutions in New Zealand who would have valued this Merlin, and I can imagine that the Purfleet Heritage centre, with it’s extensive 54 Squadron and Hornchurch connections would have loved to display the engine.

I understand Moggy’s point about does it matter whose hand pushed the throttle forward, but conversely, I do think that a Merlin from one of Al Deere’s famous “Kiwis” would have been well worth preserving.

Regards;
Steve

For me the issue was the engine was in an amazing condition considering the crash but it was from Al Deere’s Spitfire. Might not be important for you Poms but there’s a lot of Kiwi’s who would have given their right arm to have that engine on display and his nephew who operates a MK IX painted in his Uncle’s markings would have liked it. And Merlins aren’t thick on the ground over here either. Everyone is going to have a different viewpoint but this isn’t some generic Merlin it’s an early mark and they are certainly not littering museums. Melting it down has removed any worth from it would you be patting them on the back if this was the airframe? Didn’t think so.

If this engine was restorable to running condition, albeit ground running, and was then shown running at the various shows around the country, would the justification that, it was wreckage or scrap and as such a perfect candidate to be smelted, still stand?

I’m not normally very sentimental about aircraft and bit’s of them, however, this one was far better than many – and had a pretty illustrious provenance. Without doubt, many a museum would have been glad to have had it. It would appear that it was turned into trinkets simply for (More.) profit. It was worth more split into as many bits as possible. That is an aspect of so-called ‘Historic Aviation’ that is usually used to justify many a tasteless act. Just like the tatters that acquire old lags estates and then sell every item individually.
I generally only acquire parts that are of use in getting something airworthy, but even I would have departed from my usual rules in this case. It just goes to illustrate that the world isn’t short of Philistines…. :-/

At first I thought, wow, why destroy such a precious artifact.
Then after a while I thought to myself. Another knackered engine turned into ornaments.
I went to Brooklands this weekend and they have a very nice collection of engines but they remind me of the stuffed parrots in the Natural History Museum.
An engine should be making noise in an aircraft.
We have enough smashed ones to remind us of the war. Fair play, make use of the others.

I’ll second that. Thanks Foray.

Moggy

I certainly agree with you about the RAFM Hendon Maffett Hurricane Moggy. I have spent ages looking at it and just thinking. Listening to Elgar and contempating the ‘Few’. Thanx to our own Foray for making it happen.

Like it or not it is the cult of celebrity that draws people who have either a marginal or as yet undiscovered interest, in all things be it hobbies, history, probably even satanic worship; Al Deere was a good guy who did this country a great service and this largely intact relic could have formed an interesting display with a major museum, which may have enthused generations to come, alternatively it might have been hidden away in the aforementioned dank hangar, but it would at least remained largely intact.

To me at least this sorry episode bears a resemblance to the act of developers naming a road on the former airfields, (they have just covered in 2 up 2 down nest boxes) “Hurricane way” or “Spitfire close”, it is their actions that have destoyed what has gone before, and slightly bizzarely they want to pay homage.

I’m torn on it really. Ive limited interest in wreck parts unless they’re meaningful. Most displays of twisted longerons etc I find of little interest and unless rare in some way would have no qualm in recycling them as object d’art. Engines tend to be a bit more interesting, but simple wrecked lumps not much so. But from such a famous incident as this gives this one a certain cachet. I’m not really sure if I approve or not. But if it can give pleasure to many by being made into beautiful objects, then that’s probably better than just lying semi ignored in some hangar

Six of one, half a dozen of the other really

Anybody actually know the price of the piston models? I wouldn’t be able to afford one but I wouldn’t mind having one of the piston and connecting-rods…..not so bothered about the Spitfire model!

It isn’t exactly sacrilegious but couldn’t a Merlin in worse condition have been sacrificed to the smelter?

It just goes to prove how different we all are.

Moggy

Absolutely Moggy – we are all just offering our opinion…in this case nobody is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ but we all have differing opinions !

Good frigging grief, what a sorry bunch of miserable ******s you lot are.

I trust that one or two of us are exempted from that portmanteau description?

And in response to whoever asked the question earlier.. .. No, I have little interest in Merlin wreckage. I love the Hurricane tableau in the BoB Museum at Hendon and can have spent many hours just standing looking at it and thinking. As such it makes a wonderful display, and it matters not one jot to me that the hand that was on the throttle the final time it was opened wide was not a ‘celebrity’

But that said I have seen corroded and corroding Merlins in virtually every control tower museum in this country, not to mention WW2 museums across France. Another here or there doesn’t seem to me particularly critical.

I will never own a wrecked Merlin, I wouldn’t have anywhere to keep it and it wouldn’t give me any great pleasure. But displaying and holding one of those little Spitfire models, and thinking of my friend’s father (who I met once, briefly) would give me huge enjoyment.

It just goes to prove how different we all are.

Moggy

Ultimately, one has to ask if the models sold? Have a look at TMB Art metals website, and they are still available. Oddly, there do appear to be thirteen pistons available from the one engine, but perhaps there is an ‘either/or’ thing going on.

What an ignorant thing to do.

Good frigging grief, what a sorry bunch of miserable ******s you lot are.

It’s seems a shame as this engine was the from the last of his BoB Spits and has a heck of a tale accompanying it. I guess the Object d’art are okay but I think I would have preferred the engine!

I have to say I find the whole thing very puzzling – not only the destruction of a largely intact relic, but why they went to so much trouble? I see nothing wrong with producing the sculptures per se – though they are not my cup-of-tea, I admit and I do have my own feelings on selling aircraft wreck relics for commercial gain, which are well known, so I am not going down that route.

I know there are others who have produced this sort of thing in the past, but the instance that comes to mind, I seem to recall the proceeds went to a worthy cause and the aluminium used was from smashed fragments collected from sites and digs, where they had been checked and assessed as not of sufficient merit to be retained or displayed, so would have probably gone for metal recycling in any case, as many groups do with such material.

However, in this case the firm concerned seem to have deliberately selected a relatively intact example of a Merlin with a known provenance, perhaps feeling that the detailed documented complete destruction of this historic artifact in some way adds to the “value” of what they have produced from it?

I have been involved with enough digs to know how rarely Merlins come out of the ground this intact and have seen plenty that have not – surely there were poor / badly smashed examples available with equal BoB provenance?

Or perhaps showing sacks of aluminium cornflakes and smashed lumps of engine casing going into the furnace would not have satisfied their customer’s desire or imagination?

It just seems to me to be the sort of childish pointless vandalism that Jeremy Clarkson would get up

Thanks Tony, really appreciate your reply. I guess it is the nature of the beast…sad but true.

By the way, love the ADC collection and what is being done. Would love to see it one day if I ever can slow my own spending down on my T7 rebuild to afford to come over. Great job!

Cheers
Anthony

Anthony – your opinion is as relevant as anybody’s. The engine was in lovely condition, so was a bit surprised about its re-use.
That said, the firm does make some lovely items.
There are quite a few in museums (not hundreds) but all have unique history. One was sold from the old DDay museum at Shoreham (Hurricane) with cracking history and was in lovely condition. The chap seemed a genuine enthusiast. Sadly he later broke the engine up – I have been trying to buy all the parts back.

Moggy, this, like other threads I could mention (but wont!) depends on your interests and viewpoint. I wager you are uninterested in the subject of old crash Merlins.