Spitfire Gate Guard in 1976?

Here is a poor shot of the gate guardian at Uxbridge in 1960. PK 624?

John

Hi Dave

The Northolt Spitfire was parked on its undercarriage – not on a pylon – and was located outside the low “departure lounge” building about half way along the A40, certainly not near the War Memorial. It was on a grassy area within the boundary fence and facing the road – at least that’s where it was in 1973 when I flew from Northolt to Little Rissington in a Wessex – nasty smelly beast!

Glad to see your mystery has been solved. 🙂

Nowt wrong with a Wessex, try being onboard a S-61 during a running refuel, that’s smelly for you.

Looking at our mk22 everyday i can confirm that painted in frame 5

is the serial PK624.

No doubt.

regards

bwb

Been away from the web for a week, and only just catching up on threads etc.

Here’s my tuppence worth…

There was a pole-mounted Spitfire (albeit a plastic replica/FSM now I assume/hope :eek:) at RAF Uxbridge, and it was fairly easily visible from the main road past the camp entrance this summer when I took my son to visit the Brunel Uni campus nearby.

No doubt someone else will know if the current example is mounted in the same place as any former gate guardians present in the fifties/sixties/seventies.

– There was also a Spit on the gate at Abingdon, but maybe this is a bit too far off any likely route that might have been used to get to Blenheim Palace?

Cheers
Paul F

Now things get a little complicated … before TE476 became the Northolt gate guardian there was another Spitfire at Northolt – PK624!

That one did move from one gate to the other – but ended up where TE476 was eventually displayed. It was at Northolt between 1963 and 1970. Here it is in a photo taken by the late Stuart Howe in October 1969.

A few points to consider re the identity of the TFC Mk 22 ‘PK624′.

The movement card for PK624, last entry, reads – Sold to Vickers 4 Feb 1954. Typically this would indicate an onward sale to Egypt, Syria or Rhodesia etc.

An anonymous all silver Mk 22, quite scruffy, is photographed at North Weald in 1957. It carries no serial, the screen/canopy frame is painted black and it carries a Squadron badge on the cowling, a little indistinct in the photo, but said to be the CFE.

In September 1956 it had been reported as the 604 Squadron CO’s personal machine.

There is rumour that the Spitfire at North Weald is privately owned, and some say has flown. Other reports suggest that there is no engine in the Spitfire.

North Weald post WWII was home to 601 & 604 of the Royal Auxiliary Air Force. In 1957 the Auxiliaries were disbanded.

Arthur Pearcy photographed a Mk 22 Spitfire within the camp at Uxbridge/Hillingdon on 15 March 1958. The aircraft is camouflaged and carries the spurious serial ‘WP916’. It also carries a non standard all black screen/canopy frame.

By September 1958 the aircraft has moved to the then main gate at Uxbridge.

In September 1959 the aircraft carries an all silver scheme, black canopy frame and the same serial ‘WP916’, but within a year the serial had been deleted.

In September 1962 the aircraft transfers to the Northolt A40 gate replete with fresh paint and bearing the serial number PK624. A photo at the time, of the aircraft adjacent to the workshop hangars, posed with some 18 RAF tradesmen would suggest the refurbishment was comprehensive. It may well be that during this work evidence of a PK624 provenance was found. That said, as the report on the Prune forum, Brian Dunlop a flight engineer has reported a number of components and inspection panels carried the serial ‘PK110’ on the reverse. A mystery as PK110 is not a Spitfire serial.

With the start of Mk 22 production at Castle Bromwich, Vickers started again with the construction number system. From the known Construction number serials from the cockpit and the RAF serial tie up of known survivors, substantially the numbers are sequential for the last 200 odd built, however they are 30 digits adrift of sequence on early production. This may be because although attributed to CBAF they were built elsewhere. Certainly Bruce Robertson indicates sixteen Mk 22s were built by Supermarine.

Quite late in the day ‘PK624’ was allotted the Maintenance serial 8072M as part of a general tidying up of the Gate guards.

So summarizing, no record of PK624 at the CFE on its movement card, a mysterious change of ownership in 1954, a period with no serial, a period with an incorrect RAF serial, no record of a Maintenance M serial in the low 7000 range, components marked with an ‘odd’ serial number.

I await the in depth restoration of this aircraft at TFC with interest.

Mark

Thanks G-ORDY, that makes sense. After going to the trouble of a complete restoration I would expect him to go with the more original, accurate configuration. He’s very good with the details.:)

If all of the dates given for the pictures in this thread are accurate then TE476 must have had her wing tips changes several times before Kermit Weeks acquired her.

She did, originally built with clipped wings, wingtips fitted when she was flying with the Battle of Britain Flight, retained through her gate guardian days – so maybe those she carried during filming were actually real, which may explain why she retained them on arrival at Northolt. They were removed and clipped wingtips (fairings) installed by Ralph Hull when he restored her on contract to PPS for Kermit Weeks.

I would doubt that TE476 still has its BoB Film wing tips.

The tips were produced at the time to convert several low back Mk XVI’s in to ‘Markaddies’ for the use as static and taxiing aircraft. They were not structural or airworthy items and did not include navigation lights,

Excuse me for being too vague in my statement. I didn’t mean to imply that the actual metal work and rivets that were installed to give the Spit clipped wings for the film were still a part of the aircraft. What I should have said is that Spitfire TE476 as it sits today in Florida doesn’t have round wing tips, and didn’t have them when she first flew after restoration in June of 1995.

If all of the dates given for the pictures in this thread are accurate then TE476 must have had her wing tips changes several times before Kermit Weeks acquired her.

I would doubt that TE476 still has its BoB Film wing tips.

The tips were produced at the time to convert several low back Mk XVI’s in to ‘Markaddies’ for the use as static and taxiing aircraft. They were not structural or airworthy items and did not include navigation lights,

There is incidentally no evidence, that I am aware of, that TE476 was any thing other than a static in the film.

The shot of TE476 in RAF silver finish was taken by Eric Watts in the early 1950’s. He told me it was taken at Hendon. Hendon was then centre for the 31 Comms. Squadron which had several Spitfires on strength at this time, the personal aircraft of very senior RAF officers. Although TE476 was allotted to 1 CAACU in theory, fashionably white walling the tyres (and accumulator rig) is more in keeping with the overall blue and overall white of the Air Marshals machines and the Coronation etc.

Here is a Little puzzle for you. A shot I took of TE476 in Grey Green camouflage after the film, 4 July 1969…but where and why?

Mark

DC Page

“What happened to the last post regarding PK624?”

I pulled this post to further check some conflicting data. The post referred to PK624 and to evidence suggesting that perhaps this was not the true ID of the TFC Mk 22. I will return to this matter.

M

Corr, I’ve seen some mainplane bracing on early monoplanes but that on the Spitfire in the photo has to take the biscuit!

I would doubt that TE476 still has its BoB Film wing tips.

The tips were produced at the time to convert several low back Mk XVI’s in to ‘Markaddies’ for the use as static and taxiing aircraft. They were not structural or airworthy items and did not include navigation lights,

There is incidentally no evidence, that I am aware of, that TE476 was any thing other than a static in the film.

The shot of TE476 in RAF silver finish was taken by Eric Watts in the early 1950’s. He told me it was taken at Hendon. Hendon was then centre for the 31 Comms. Squadron which had several Spitfires on strength at this time, the personal aircraft of very senior RAF officers. Although TE476 was allotted to 1 CAACU in theory, fashionably white walling the tyres (and accumulator rig) is more in keeping with the overall blue and overall white of the Air Marshals machines and the Coronation etc.

Here is a Little puzzle for you. A shot I took of TE476 in Grey Green camouflage after the film, 4 July 1969…but where and why?

Mark

DC Page

“What happened to the last post regarding PK624?”

I pulled this post to further check some conflicting data. The post referred to PK624 and to evidence suggesting that perhaps this was not the true ID of the TFC Mk 22. I will return to this matter.

M

Originally Posted by G-ORDY
Don’t know about the post but PK624 is now owned by The Fighter Collection and is dismantled in their hangar at Duxford – has been for quite some time.

Yes that’s what I meant in my earlier post about it arriving at Duxford in October of 1994 and is still there undergoing restoration. I got some pictures of it still in storage when I last was there in 2004, and a friend just sent me some pictures of it taken in the last year that show it stripped to bare metal. Looks like it still has a long way to go.

BTW – the wingtips fitted to TE476 for The Battle of Britain film were retained when it was displayed on the gate at Northolt.

TE476 Still has those wingtips today, some 40 years later. I believe all of the other film survivors have been returned to original. My earlier comment about them referred to the fact you can easily date those older pictures as before 67/68 and after just by the wing modifications, but something in the record doesn’t make sense. If the wings were modified around 1967/68 for the film, and TE476 actually arrived at Northolt on July 2nd, 1970 for display, then when were those pictures taken? It is obviously the same location that PK624 is photographed in, but the wingtips are original and unmodified. Also the picture of TE476 in silver with obviously clipped wings shows truck tires or some sort of dolly underneath the belly of the plane. Was this used for moving aircraft around? Thanks.

What happened to the last post regarding PK624? It seems to have disappeared. I was going through some of my RAF museum notes and came across this:

May 1993
Avro Anson W2068
Fuselage less wings imported into the UK by the Fighter Collection, Duxford; Offered to the RAF Museum in an exchange deal, in which the RAF Museum acquired the restored Anson fuselage and engines, undercarriage and tail, plus the rebuilding of its P-47 Thunderbolt, in exchange for former gate guard Spitfire Mk.22 PK624.

Don’t know about the post but PK624 is now owned by The Fighter Collection and is dismantled in their hangar at Duxford – has been for quite some time.

BTW – the wingtips fitted to TE476 for The Battle of Britain film were retained when it was displayed on the gate at Northolt.

What happened to the last post regarding PK624? It seems to have disappeared. I was going through some of my RAF museum notes and came across this:

May 1993
Avro Anson W2068
Fuselage less wings imported into the UK by the Fighter Collection, Duxford; Offered to the RAF Museum in an exchange deal, in which the RAF Museum acquired the restored Anson fuselage and engines, undercarriage and tail, plus the rebuilding of its P-47 Thunderbolt, in exchange for former gate guard Spitfire Mk.22 PK624.

Well looks like the definitive answer there!!!

Now to have a rootle round Duxford for PK… 😉

When I saw the Spitfire at RAF Northolt it was late April of 1976, and it was elevated and very close to the road. I think it was surrounded by trees because I don’t think it was visible for very long while driving by. It was pointed at the road and above me as we passed by. It was in green camouflage, not bare metal or silver. I have no doubt the aircraft I saw was TE476, and I believe it was close to the gate at West End Road.

There is a thread on the PPRuNe website from 2004 concerning these Spitfires. A poster by the name of Speedbird48 says he and a man named Jim Dell were ordered to go to RAF Uxbridge in 1963 to dismantle and move Spitfire PK624 for transport to RAF Northolt. He says it was stripped and painted before going to the South side gate near the A40. When he dismantled PK624 he noticed several panels were marked PK110, and says that the engine was just a frame to mount a prop hub on. He also said the aircraft was easy to take apart and was in good condition since all bolts and screws were well greased. This aircraft was displayed at Uxbridge with Chipmunk serial WP916. It was displayed at RAF Northolt from 1963 until 1968 where it was correctly re-numbered as PK624. In 1968 some renovation work was done and it was allocated for use in the Battle of Britain filming, but was not used. It remained at Northolt until 23rd of July, 1970, then it was moved to RAF Abingdon where it stayed until the Great Spitfire Reclamation of the late 1980’s. PK624 arrived at St. Athan in August of 1989 where it remained until October of 1994. It arrived at Duxford on the 11th of October 1994 and is still there undergoing restoration.

Spitfire TE476 suffered a belly landing in September of 1959, was quickly repaired and issued to No. 11 Group Communications Flight (BBMF) early January 1960. By late January 1960 it was issued to RAF Neatishead for ground display. In February 1967 it was moved to RAF Henlow for restoration to taxiing condition for use in BofB filming. It was used for taxi scenes bearing serial numbers 3311 and 3320, and Squadron codes AI-B and AI-F. After film duties it went to RAF Kemble to be refurbished and was issued to RAF Northolt for display and arrived on June 2nd, 1970. It was completely refurbished during 1976/77 and was gate guard until August of 1989. The Spitfire replica replaced it a few months later.

Spitfire Mk XVIe TE476 is believed to be the only Spitfire to keep her BofB clipped wings. You can date the pictures in this thread by whether or not it has round wing tips.

Thanks again to everyone for your help and information.

The plot thickens!!!

He was at Northolt around the early 70’s (and later) so it could well be PK624 he saw – not sure if he looked closely at serial numbers!! They used to live on Carmichael Close which would fit in with my wife walking past TE476 (or was it PK624?!?!) on a regular basis when the main gate was off W. End Road.

He does say that the entrance onto the A40 Western Ave. was evenutally closed due to the risk of traffic accidents.

DC Page,
According to my father in law (staying here just now) it was further up the road – on the gate at the Western Avenue – this was the gate that was used VIP flights/visits.

He seems to recall it was originally at the gate on the W End Road. It was moved round to the Western Avenue later.

Now things get a little complicated … before TE476 became the Northolt gate guardian there was another Spitfire at Northolt – PK624!

That one did move from one gate to the other – but ended up where TE476 was eventually displayed. It was at Northolt between 1963 and 1970. Here it is in a photo taken by the late Stuart Howe in October 1969.

The reason I mentioned Northolt is that I once travelled by coach from Paddington to Worcester in 1973 and that was the only Spit I saw on the journey.
Also at Northolt as we whizzed past, according to my log, was US Navy US-1B Tracker, 136445!
Jim

RW382. Yes, but hardly visible form the road.

My money is on TE476 on the A40, the logical London to Oxford/Blenheim Palace route.

Well pole mounted or no should answer it.

Mark

I saw this and the Polish war memorial dozens,perhaps even a hundred times as a child in my father´s car passing the front gate of RAF Northolt, but never saw the Uxbridge one.And as Northolt is at the beginning of the Motorway the drive to Oxford would be realtively fast after spending perhaps 1 hour crossing central London even back in baking hot summer of 1976.It was on an island at the gate located about midpoint of the airfield where it fronted the A40M

DC Page,
According to my father in law (staying here just now) it was further up the road – on the gate at the Western Avenue – this was the gate that was used VIP flights/visits.

He seems to recall it was originally at the gate on the W End Road. It was moved round to the Western Avenue later.