Spitfire JF413 VS Kittyhawk P-40

Addition pieces were found in the field, one look like a pieces of radiator of the P-40 engine, see the pieces and the P-40 pictures, I have also another screw to confirm the American size probably. According of the information definitely is a Kittyhawk P-40 FX718 crashed on 14 September 1944 at 13:00, Sgt. James McNab Dick at M2325 ( Tebano ), this was a mission: “Briefed to bomb a defended area at R 010974 SW of Marradi. Sgt. James Dick hit during the dive, was heard to say he had been hit and his cockpit was filled smoke. He was heard to say he was bailing out. A “fix” by sector control traced him at R2195 15 miles SW of Forlì just before he said he was going baling out. 6 a/c 11,20 – 13,35 Kittyhawk FX718” … in this report the coordinates are not correct.. additional information was found from partisan the recover the pilot together Lt. E.Manne

From the mouth of the Horse, you cant say neigh to that !

I’ve got some vague recollection that the centre-dot on the rivet head means something about the heat-treatment of the rivet; it’s not an accidental production feature. Nor (surely) can it simply be a feature of all American produced rivets?

If Steve Vizard says it’s 100% not Spitfire then, obviously, I’m more than happy to accept that.

Thanks Mark12 for your great help, the dot in the center of all the rivets, include the small, it was my major “suspect” that was NOT a spitfire…Thanks again for the support.

I lean toward this being American.

Just had a call from Steve Vizard at Airframe Assemblies who spotted this thread.

Definitely not Spitfire…100%

The rivets with the centre dot indicate this is a US built aircraft.

Mark

Thanks guys for the help to resolve this case, I have another screw to measure, I hope I will find the answer… What about the colors of the aluminum pieces? are they compatible with the spifire?

Trolley,, that second pic of the .303 round does not appear to be WRA, and was made two yrs. prior. All USA ammo I have encountered in that timeframe have been crimped. So the mystery deepens. As a member of the shooting sports and a reloader, those marks are dangerously close to the primer,if indeed those marks are coming from the bolt as it closes on the round I would be very nervous around that particular firearm.

I just cleaned the bolt and screw, and I tried to measure it.. look like 4.06 diameter, and have around 17 threads for a 0.5″, the size of the hex bolt is 9.6mm,, look like BA #3, is it correct ? we find many small pieces of aluminous, see picture, but NO one as any marks…That is “strange” for a Spitfire… as well I found a shell & bullets, no used,, mark 1941, VII .. v. Not used.. What do you think? Spit or P-40?

fdapport. The dimensions you give for this thread fit well with 3BA however 3BA is not a preferred size used on the airframe of a Spitfire. They use 4BA, 2BA and 1/4 inch BSF. Some electrical items used have been known to use the obscure BA size.

The Across Flats of the 3BA hexagon tolerance is 7.035mm min / 7.11mm max…you have 9.6mm

The dimensions are also very close to 8-32 American National Fine.

Suggest you try further screws/bolts if available for measuring.

Mark

If you see the new photo of the .303 does not show the marks so has never been in a breach.

me109g the 303 case primer does not have any kind of crimping marks to hold the primer cap in

I have checked as well the American Thread, if the diameter of the screw is 4.1mm (0.1640″), size #8, the threads is 32 per inch, some of my screw… mystery still ongoing!!!

other pictures…

I just cleaned the bolt and screw, and I tried to measure it.. look like 4.06 diameter, and have around 17 threads for a 0.5″, the size of the hex bolt is 9.6mm,, look like BA #3, is it correct ? we find many small pieces of aluminous, see picture, but NO one as any marks…That is “strange” for a Spitfire… as well I found a shell & bullets, no used,, mark 1941, VII .. v. Not used.. What do you think? Spit or P-40?

I believe the two marks around the primer are crimping marks to firmly hold the primer in place, if the bolt is leaving that kind of mark in the primer chances are it would go off when struck.

Winchester certainly could have made that ammunition to UK specifications.

thanks Trolly aux for the clear explanation, full undestend!!.. today I found also another type of ammunition…definitely this is not a ammunition of a spitfire as well of P-40 (0.50″) … a good news is that I found a screw/bolt that I can tray to measure the thread (se picture).. What about the bullets, it look like incendiary bullets that was used in a spitfire. Correrct?

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More confusion, the head stamp ‘WRA’ is american

WRA
Winchester Repeating Arms Co., New Haven, Conn., USA

Yes the case has at some point been into a gun its not just been in a clip or belt it has been loaded as can be seen by the two small notches in photo 2

My English is not good to undusted, could you please be more “elementar”..sorry

That .303 has defiantly been loaded into a breach

I know but this type of ammunition was used also for military guns, it is around commons to fine in my area many ammunitions