Spitfire P8187 in Fresh Water

Well done Geoff, wonder what happened to it and where it went if that was the case and what period this all happened? It’s unusual that  no news of its removal/recovery ever leaked out.

It certainly is a puzzle, Geoff. Good idea contacting the Fishery though.

Hi All,

 I sent an email to Monteith fisheries as I figured if anybody would know they would, the manager told of a personal anecdote told to him some years ago is:-

       ” the Spitfire had been removed, and no records were made by the MOD “

Still all little pieces make a bigger jigsaw eh?

Geoff.

Hi All,

 Just found this on the subject:- https://canmore.org.uk/site/294695/vickers-supermarine-spitfire-iia-lake-of-menteith

Looks like somebody who was involved in the survey knows where it is, scrolling to the bottom of the page a update from 2018 a chap Nick Marsh notes the location marker is wrong and the OS Map coordinates are the correct ones.

Geoff.

Perhaps if Allison Johnson is still around she may have followed it up some more since July 2006. So Allison if you read this it would be good to know how you progressed.                       Also Mothminor that’s a fair point regarding the survey, if the surveyors were not into aircraft then no mention of it is completely understandable.

Totally agree, Sopwith. It would be interesting to know if there is a Spitfire down there. The whole lake (it’s actually relatively small) was thoroughly surveyed using sidescan sonar, echo-sounding and divers in 1993-94 but the interest lay in a much earlier historical feature – Iron Age crannogs. No mention of any aircraft wreckage in the survey report which doesn’t necessarily mean that there is absolutely nothing there just that it wasn’t their interest. 

Caused a lot of discussion on the forum at the time, pity no more has been heard since.

I have a feeling that “Allison Johnson” turned out to be someone posting bovine ordure (Windermere Sunderland comes to mind), if so I doubt you’ll get an update.

Is there any update on this?

I won’t **** off a paddy too. Does that make me a racist?

Ali

now i REALLY am getting annoyed!!! (JOKE!!! )
😡 thats the one for when you are pretending to be annoyed!

Mr clarke,

“Hurrifan has offered up the tired old tactic of shifting attention to side issues”

No not really simply pointing out what would appear to be double standards and NOT on my behalf..

“The two posts complained of were direct personal remarks. A member’s race, colour, creed, politics or gender are no-one’s business but their own. “

Wrong again, they were comments on the present attitude of some people that they are never wrong…given with an emphasis on humour ..obviously lost on someone like yourself.

race religion creed etc were never mentioned Blairism is now rapidly approaching Oxford dictionary status as being a discription of someone who follows the lead and buries their head in the sand not wanting to change!!!!

and on and on and on…..I was the one( and i think the only one) that AJ was going to use her boots on but it was a JOKE !!! and taken as one…

Swearing ??? i presume you mean ****? …well sorry but thats life !!!

But the noteworthy fact is that you have totally ignorred the questions put to you!!! If soo worried about “rude ” postings why havent you addressed those “personal ” remarks made to me ???

why not address comments passed to ali about her true motives and what could be taken as a comment on her mental state / attitude???

why if soo worried about insulting people didnt you contact either of us by PM???? and no i dont mean vis friend Tony!!!! ( JOKE! )

think we can put this down to another example of do as i say not as i do!!!!!

and that isnt a joke by the way!!!!

I won’t **** off a paddy too. Does that make me a racist?

Ali

Hurrifan has offered up the tired old tactic of shifting attention to side issues. The two posts complained of were direct personal remarks. A member’s race, colour, creed, politics or gender are no-one’s business but their own.

The two posts had stood already for some time. Left to stand unremarked they served only to encourage the sort of ill-tempered exchange that the boards have been trying (with only modest success) to rise above.

As for Gallipoli, I take it Hurrifan is not claiming, himself, to have recently recovered compete remains there. Though he has chosen to see a reflection on his honesty, his recall of the recovery of WWI remains in 2006 is wrong, in fact and in supposed result: http://minister.dva.gov.au/media_releases/2006/02_feb/va003.htm
http://minister.dva.gov.au/media_releases/2006/07_July/va067.htm.

Remains at Gallipoli found in 2005 roadworks were fragmentary and -according to the Turkish authorities and the Australian Minister – may not have been human at all. Either way, the Turks, the CWGC and the Australian Dept of Veterans Affairs are of one mind: the recovery of complete remains at Gallipoli is unlikely, but the appearance of fragmentary remains is to be expected from time to time and the respectful course is to return them to the earth from whence they came: http://www.dva.gov.au/commem/anzac/gallipoli01.htm and http://www.dva.gov.au/commem/anzac/gallipoli_remains.pdf (1 mb!)

Although he talked only obliquely about “recent” Gallipoli finds, it seems that Hurrifan may have been referring only to the 2001 case of apparently Turkish remains. This he could have made plain.

The Gallipoli peninsula and battlefield is Turkish soil. As the DVA/CWGC document points out, Turkish customs in all these matters are very different from ours, they have no individual cemeteries or memorials, and they consider the entire battlefield to be a sacred repository.

Yet the Turks have always given – and continue to give – every respect and assistance to our own customs and observations. In which case, we would do well to accord them the same respect. Turkish treatment of Turkish war dead is not a matter for the CWGC. However, we are straying far from Historic Aviation -and addressing personal attacks- here.

Sense of humour: mine’s just fine, thanks. Ms Johnston chose to start her thread by offering up a nice little bit of gee-up “Are we all going to sit here and talk about it and let the thread just vanish into the archives or are we going to do something about it?”, followed up by dressing up her position as just asking for information -when in fact she was calling for volunteers- and then proceeding to push her own thread downhill with swearing, offers to kick people, assorted swipes about socks and sandals, and the final uncalled for personal remark.

ALL members are entitled to their opinion. Ms Johnson can dress it up as banter if she likes, but NO member is entitled to reflect upon the race, colour, creed, politics or gender of another, nor are they entitled to swear.

Lecturing, “blubbing”, “fair play”, “sense of humour” “banter” – all water off a duck’s back to me. There’s no point in having a go at me when the offending posts are clearly theirs. Hurrifan and Ms Johnson can apologise, delete the personal remarks and move on or not. Up to them.

I’m not going to comment on this.

Ali

:p =joke
🙂 Fun too

Mr clarke,

“Hurrifan has offered up the tired old tactic of shifting attention to side issues”

No not really simply pointing out what would appear to be double standards and NOT on my behalf..

“The two posts complained of were direct personal remarks. A member’s race, colour, creed, politics or gender are no-one’s business but their own. “

Wrong again, they were comments on the present attitude of some people that they are never wrong…given with an emphasis on humour ..obviously lost on someone like yourself.

race religion creed etc were never mentioned Blairism is now rapidly approaching Oxford dictionary status as being a discription of someone who follows the lead and buries their head in the sand not wanting to change!!!!

and on and on and on…..I was the one( and i think the only one) that AJ was going to use her boots on but it was a JOKE !!! and taken as one…

Swearing ??? i presume you mean ****? …well sorry but thats life !!!

But the noteworthy fact is that you have totally ignorred the questions put to you!!! If soo worried about “rude ” postings why havent you addressed those “personal ” remarks made to me ???

why not address comments passed to ali about her true motives and what could be taken as a comment on her mental state / attitude???

why if soo worried about insulting people didnt you contact either of us by PM???? and no i dont mean vis friend Tony!!!! ( JOKE! )

think we can put this down to another example of do as i say not as i do!!!!!

and that isnt a joke by the way!!!!

“Remains at Gallipoli found in 2005 roadworks were fragmentary and -according to the Turkish authorities- may not have been human at all.” Oh my God..They found Simpsons Donkey!!!!!!!!!!The travesty of it all. 😮 :rolleyes:

Aviation Forums members have, by dint of three years of sometimes bitter struggle, generally managed to rise above the level of uncalled for personal remarks.
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showpost.php?p=976782&postcount=149
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showpost.php?p=976611&postcount=148

The acceptable standard of behaviour is clearly documented at registration and in the code of conduct on each and every board here. The Webmaster and volunteer moderators are generally helpful in resolving lapses but they cannot be here all the time.

Members who cannot manage to put their case without descending to personal attack do nothing to advance their case, their credibility, or the reputation of the boards.

Members unable to moderate their own behavior to a basic standard of civility would be better off seeking other boards where poor behaviour is tolerated.

Maybe someone should get a sense of humour. I liken a forum to a bit like a tea shop. People are entitled to air their opinions and, like any discussion, there should be a bit of light hearted banter.

:p Usually means I’m joking
🙂 This usually means the same.

Ali

MR.Clarke,

Seeing as you seem soo concerned about offensive posting why didnt you address these?

“but I find it difficult to believe that the CWGC would allow a situation such as you describe to continue. The rest of the paragraph is nonsense.”

Firstly i find it OFFENSIVE to have my honesty questioned..i have since supplied a link to a site where this issue was raised..with no response or an apology..

Secondly dont you think that describing anothers opinion as “nonsense” is offensive?

Now I couldnt be bothered raising this before as i dont go running off blubbing everytime someone says ” BOO” but if someone is going to try and publically run other posters down and lecture them as to their conduct I feel that they could at least try a bit of fair play and equal treatment!

Aviation Forums members have, by dint of three years of sometimes bitter struggle, generally managed to rise above the level of uncalled for personal remarks.
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showpost.php?p=976782&postcount=149
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showpost.php?p=976611&postcount=148

The acceptable standard of behaviour is clearly documented at registration and in the code of conduct on each and every board here. The Webmaster and volunteer moderators are generally helpful in resolving lapses but they cannot be here all the time.

Members who cannot manage to put their case without descending to personal attack do nothing to advance their case, their credibility, or the reputation of the boards.

Members unable to moderate their own behavior to a basic standard of civility would be better off seeking other boards where poor behaviour is tolerated.

If this tread is a cause for concern there is always the option of private message rather than the “naughty girl/boy ” lecturing approach .There is enough of that attitude from some of the “contributors ” (?) to this tread without the moderators adopting same!

In addition some of these ” contributors” need to develop a sense of humour & common courtesy for others opinions . Or maybe THEY should find a different forum!!!!

Maybe voted for Tony Blair too. :p :p :p

Ali 🙂

Poodle fancier????? :rolleyes:

JDK…..looks like a case of do as i say not as i do!!!! LOL

Maybe voted for Tony Blair too. :p :p :p

Ali 🙂

Hi Hurrifan – my earlier post, the same one you quoted from.

There have been some good points made here, and some interesting debate. However the core thread is going nowhere, and so that’s it from me.

JDK…..looks like a case of do as i say not as i do!!!! LOL