Spitfire PL440

http://www.spitfires.ukf.net/p087.htm

Yes, a great site indeed. I’ll list this one in my favorites.

Thanks for the link,

Stieglitz

Also the status card could be wrong as well.The info would only be as accurate as what the desk jockey would be writing(or not writing) in it.We found a ten month gap in our reproduction aircrafts history from when it crashed to when it came down here to be repaired.New info that has come to light says she was still on opps.

PL 440

Thanks for that. In fact the info on the spitfires.ukf.net site re the crash landing has recently been added by Andrew Pentland from information I gave him so the source of that info is known and doesn’t help us.
The circumstances of the crash are well known and were supplied by a historical aviation association in Lyons that asked me for help inidentifying the aircraft.
I’ve just found out that the photos I have were published some time ago in a book and are already in the public domain so I don’t really see what harm it could do. They’re attached to this message.

There is some debate about just where all the RAF Spit squadrons were based during those hectic days when they were continually moving forward nearer to the retreating German lines. I do know that Lyons wasn’t liberated till Sept 2nd and that the first aircraft arrived at Lyons Bron on the 5th.
For example, I keep hearing about Spits based in Sisteron but can’t find any evidence of this at all ? It would help if I knew for certain which squadrons were where at the end of August ?
Cheers,
Ian Stevenson

Err, I meant the website says it was lost in August, not the card! Obviously the website could be inaccurate in that respect. But I think we’re on the same page that if it didn’t have unit markings, it was likely lost before it made it as far as a unit.

I suppose another pertinent question would be “How do you know the aircraft was in a field near Lyon?”

Is there any chance we could see the photos?

When you say the photos show no codes or insignia – do you mean that the photos are from such angles that the codes would be obscured or invisible, or that the aircraft is painted without such markings?

Given that the aircraft arrived in Casablanca on 22nd August, and was lost (according to the card) in August, then it only had a maximum of nine days from delivery to loss. It still seems to me like it could have been on the way to a unit, rather than operating with a unit.

The card doesn’t say anything about being lost or an accident in August/early September 1944. I would suggest that any accident at this time period, from another source than the card, would be associated with test flying the uncrated and recently arrived machine.

Mark

PL 440

When you say the photos show no codes or insignia – do you mean that the photos are from such angles that the codes would be obscured or invisible, or that the aircraft is painted without such markings?

Given that the aircraft arrived in Casablanca on 22nd August, and was lost (according to the card) in August, then it only had a maximum of nine days from delivery to loss. It still seems to me like it could have been on the way to a unit, rather than operating with a unit.

The aircraft was definitely not painted with markings. The fuselage roundels look hand-painted and the black and white shades look inverted when compared to British colours. It may well have been on the way to a unit but in that case, the pilot was very lost. He’s flying behind enemy lines, at 11 a.m. in good weather and at least 30 minutes flying time north of the nearest allied base at that date. I suppose anything is possible….

When you say the photos show no codes or insignia – do you mean that the photos are from such angles that the codes would be obscured or invisible, or that the aircraft is painted without such markings?

Given that the aircraft arrived in Casablanca on 22nd August, and was lost (according to the card) in August, then it only had a maximum of nine days from delivery to loss. It still seems to me like it could have been on the way to a unit, rather than operating with a unit.

Spit PL 440

Thanks for that, most of the info I had already. My only hope is that someone recognizes the story and gets in touch. The New Texas was just full of brand new Spits that ended up all over the place but 13 of them went to RAF Squadrons that were operating in the South of France at that time.
An eye-witness report says that the pilot was in shorts and a short-sleeved shirt with the words ‘New Zealand’ stitched to the shoulder but there were Kiwi pilots in many units….
Cheers,
Ian

In general Spitfires, entering the the Mediterranean Theatre through Casablanca, Takoradi etc do not have there subsequent unit allotments recorded on their movement card. The chain of communication back to the UK was just not up to it.

New Texas is of course the name of the ship that ferried it to NW Africa.

Mark

Oh my god.Now that is what I call a website.Thank you for showing us the light as the only serials site I have seen on Spits were the Castle Bromwich website and the “Spitfire History “book.

You’ve probably found this page already, but here goes:
http://www.spitfires.ukf.net/p087.htm

According to that site, its progression was:
6MU 27-6-44
82MU 24-7-44
New Texas 31-7-44
Casablanca 22-8-44
Crash landed nr Lyons 8-44

That suggests to me that it was being ferried around between MU’s or something similar, which would explain the lack of squadron codes.

Spitfire PL 440

Just wondered if anyone had seen my original message on this topic, posted Oct 4th. Haven’t seen anything at all, perhaps I’m in the wrong place, or perhaps it’s just uninteresting, or more likely I just posted it at a bad time and in got lost in the pile.
Anyway, still haven’t identified the unit or pilot involved in spite of a lot of effort so if anyone has an idea, a suggestion or information, I’d really appreciate it.
Ian Stevenson