Spitfire Society

Steve611

I refer to your #47 and appreciate your comments.

Since I have never had any associations with the Spitfire Society, and have not had any involvement with Tangmere Museum for very many years, I merely have an interest in what becomes of the ‘Svendsen replica’ and feel that I owe this to the Svendsen family given my long-term personal involvement with them over this.

I have duly raised the matter, out of a sense of duty, in the appropriate places. I am sure that the issue may well be raised with the executive members if it is appropriate or necessary to do so.

Bump. From what I hear this might get a bit busy soon

I would add to R6915’s post to expand his exclusion zone. You finish work on Friday at 6pm, get home, grab a bit to eat and then try to work your way to South Wales for 11am Saturday. It is 8 hours continuous drive from Yorkshire according to Google, so I would also eliminate most of North-East England (unless they were prepared to throw caution to the wind, burn a couple of tanks of petrol and and at least one overnight hotel), and all of Scotland on the same grounds but more. And anyone overseas. Would the Exec be willing to pay expenses to the members for attending such a critical event, much as they have no issues about paying their own expenses?

Most of Welsh Wales is “challenging” to get to from anywhere other than the local area, frankly. Been there, done that. If the Exec REALLY wanted the members to say what they wanted, they would have chosen somewhere reachable by the bulk of the membership, easily and on a day that everyone concerned with the biggest active part of the Society based at Duxford were free. Instead, they have chosen somewhere easy for the 3 Exec members but a ****** for everyone else and on one of Duxfords busiest days and given the Eastern Region a choice- do your bit to promote the Society at a major airshow or not be there to fight your way to the EGM for dissolution of the Society. You have to admire their concern for the members, don’t you? There is another point. There exists within the Articles of most organisations the right for the members to call an EGM at any time as long as they fulfill the conditions. I have heard rumours that sufficient members of the Spitfire Society filed a call for an EGM to answer questions (much like “duckgate”) about why 3 or 4 members of the Exec spent pretty much all of the annual membership income on personal expenses. I am given to understand that this request was filed with the Exec about a week before the letter went out about the intent to dissolve the Society. That letter made no mention of any other call but stated categorically that the only matter for discussion was to be the dissolution. Suspicious? Surely not.

Tangmere1940

I know that I am not part of the Spitfire Society Exec and I am pretty certain that R6915 isn’t either. You want the best to be done with the Svendsen family donation. Frankly, we do too. Unfortunately, if the Spitfire Society is dissolved, the only people with ANY say in what happens is the 3 members of the Exec (maybe the Charities Commissioners if there is a valid challenge to process, but they have been roundly criticised in official investigations so I would not wish to bet my house on their actions).
Personally I would prefer the Society to persist and re-invent itself with new blood coming on board. At the moment there seems a reluctance to “join in”. This could be for many reasons- the general lack of enthusiasm these days for “doing that sort of thing” is one, but not wishing to work with the current incumbents for whatever reason might be another. I have stood for office in the past but ill health prevents me from doing so just now.

If you wish to take up the issue with the Exec, the Spitfire Society website lists email addresses as below:
Michael Hayes [email]deputy-chairman@spitfiresociety.org[/email]
Lucy/Michael Hayes [email]memsec@spitfiresociety.org[/email]
Ray Burgess [email]treasurer@spitfiresociety.org[/email]

If you can help either in keeping the Society afloat or determining an appropriate home for the ex-Tangmere replica you can be assured of my absolute support (and I suspect also of R6915’s).

I do endorse what Steve611 has written in post # 47.

In fact I would go further by saying that I am pretty certain that if the three trustees think that if they get some sort of approval from the small number of members likely to get to Newport, South Wales for 11.00am on Saturday Sept 19th ( also the day of the big autumn Duxford Air Show where, believe it, or not the society has a well manned stand!) the tortuous processes of the Charity Commission will rightly ensure that it will not just happen because they want it to do so on the day the Trustees determine as a closure date.

I know there is now a significant ground swell of anger at this dictatorial decision by Trustees to hold an EGM at a time of day and a location that effectively prevents the main concentrations (including London, eastern England, south and south east England) of members from making an effective presence felt in opposition to their proposal. Particulalrly, as a number of us could make a good guess at what is really behind all of this and steps will be taken to counter this.

Tangmere1940

I know that I am not part of the Spitfire Society Exec and I am pretty certain that R6915 isn’t either. You want the best to be done with the Svendsen family donation. Frankly, we do too. Unfortunately, if the Spitfire Society is dissolved, the only people with ANY say in what happens is the 3 members of the Exec (maybe the Charities Commissioners if there is a valid challenge to process, but they have been roundly criticised in official investigations so I would not wish to bet my house on their actions).
Personally I would prefer the Society to persist and re-invent itself with new blood coming on board. At the moment there seems a reluctance to “join in”. This could be for many reasons- the general lack of enthusiasm these days for “doing that sort of thing” is one, but not wishing to work with the current incumbents for whatever reason might be another. I have stood for office in the past but ill health prevents me from doing so just now.

If you wish to take up the issue with the Exec, the Spitfire Society website lists email addresses as below:
Michael Hayes [email]deputy-chairman@spitfiresociety.org[/email]
Lucy/Michael Hayes [email]memsec@spitfiresociety.org[/email]
Ray Burgess [email]treasurer@spitfiresociety.org[/email]

If you can help either in keeping the Society afloat or determining an appropriate home for the ex-Tangmere replica you can be assured of my absolute support (and I suspect also of R6915’s).

Thank you R6915 for your comments.

Whilst it may well have been the case that the Svendsen family were consulted, I’m sure they would want to secure the future of an object they paid a lot of money for in memory of a brother lost flying from Tangmere.

The replica had certainly needed some ‘cosmetic’ attention, but nothing that could not have been relatively easily addressed.

Whatever one’s thoughts may be about replica FSMs, this one had been very dear to the Svendsen family as a memorial and I suspect (although I do not know) that they would wish for its future to be secured if the Spitfire Society is being wound up.

I do not know why Tangmere wished to replace the replica on display, perhaps someone from there can assist?

As to why the K5054 facsimile didn’t go to Eastleigh as was expected? That’s long story but a very short answer is this. It was to go into a single story glass front and side display cube on the short approach road to the Terminal building. Rolls-Royce and British Airways had indicated very generous financial gestures towards this with a land donation from the then airport owners. Along came a property developer and made a suggestion to the those airport owners for a more profitable use for the site and the offer evaporated over night!

It was left to a nearby Mercedes – Benz dealership to put a 3/5th’s size replica on a pole on the approach road roundabout below the M27 motorway when a small industrial estate was shoe horned in a few years later.

The Spitfire Society never had anything to do with any odd idea to put plastic Spitfires anywhere.

It was certainly proposed as an initiative, in the Society’s name, at the AGM in 2012.

Why were Tangmere keen to replace a FSM Spitfire representing a Tangmere machine with another that would have been better placed nearer Eastleigh?

The glass fibre replica was gifted to the museum by the Svendsen family under an arrangement which I had some considerable personal involvement with. It was gifted as a memorial to Axel Svendsen of 234 Sqn who made his last flight from Tangmere.

If it is ‘to be disposed’ of then I’m sure the family would wish to know what is going on.

Re post #38 My understanding is that the family were consulted at very great length by the Tangmere people over some months early in 2013. I was told that they gave their blessing to the suggestions made. In fact the replica was stored in the car park outside and open to the weather from late autumn 2012 after it was retired from display inside. The possibility of K5054 facsimile full ownership, I recall, became a possibility from early in 2013.

The facsimile had been on display within the museum for quite a few years previously on a loan basis from the Spitfire Society and it had been superbly looked after by the team at the museum. When it was taken out by the society to be used at the Polesden Lacey event in July 2012 it was damaged by careless supervision of its transport and handling by the then society Exec members. Worse still the cockpit canopy was left open at Polesden and several gallons of rain water were trapped inside the fuselage on its return to Tangmere. Members of both the society and the museum staff who were there to help unload it back at the museum were horrified at its state. The Tangmere team did a great job in reviving it. It took over 3 weeks of running a dehumidifier inside the fueselage to get the last of the water removed. Phil Stock and his team even managed to ensure that the wooden framework did not warp.

That was the catalyst by some society members to ensure it was preserved properly for future years.

I hear there is a chance that it will make a ‘guest’ appearence at Goodwood Revival in September. But carefully looked after as usual by the Tangmere people and possibly Bill Williams who managed the building of it all the those years ago.

Mike J
The Spitfire Society never had anything to do with any odd idea to put plastic Spitfires anywhere, although we did actually have a plastic Spitfire that was moved to Cornwall and hasn’t been seen much at any Society activities since, oddly. That a former senior figure in the Society was the prime mover behind such an idea is undeniable.

Moggy
There might be such an association. There doesn’t seem to have been much of a production line up and running and the initial enthusiasm seems to have been scaled down, possibly due to a lack of money. I don’t suppose for one second that- no, Charities can’t do that.

I could say more, but then others might have to kill me.

Not unconnected with the ownership of a plastic Spitfire factory if I recall correctly?

Still the influx of real Spitfires from S E Asia into Perranporth put an end to all that.

Moggy

Wasn’t the master plan to have the Society place dozens of plastic Spitfires perched on sticks all over darkest Africa?

The glass fibre replica was gifted to the museum by the Svendsen family under an arrangement which I had some considerable personal involvement with. It was gifted as a memorial to Axel Svendsen of 234 Sqn who made his last flight from Tangmere.

If it is ‘to be disposed’ of then I’m sure the family would wish to know what is going on.

Re post #35. Suggest Financial Year 2013 not 2012 is appropriate for the Ex Tangmere replica entering the society’s records. I haven’t looked I should say, but there should also be the detail +value of a new trailer for it that should be included as should Insurances for the beast! Does anyone know more?

But would the facsimile K5054 have not been in the accounts as an asset before then? Society members should be able to get access to a full set of detailed accounts in advance of any winding up. Does the note mean that the facsimile K5054 needs to be returned. I hope its more than just a note but is a full legal document.

Re post #35. Suggest Financial Year 2013 not 2012 is appropriate for the Ex Tangmere replica entering the society’s records. I haven’t looked I should say, but there should also be the detail +value of a new trailer for it that should be included as should Insurances for the beast! Does anyone know more?

My understanding is that if you are winding up a Registered Charity you have to have all your financial accounts up to date. The 2012 accounts provided to the Charity Commission suggest that they do not have the replica Spitfire recorded as an Asset.

RE Post # 29.

Mark, a further aspect to the handover of the Spitfire prototype facsimile K5054 – as Jeffrey Quill preferred to call it – was that the Spitfire Society gained the Tangmere Museum glass fibre former replica in the exchange facsimile. It was quickly taken away by the then society chairman David S. Evans and moved to Cornwall. Few society members know of this replica’s existence and so far as I know, none of the society regional groups has been able gain the use of the replica for any fund raising or publicity purposes due to that lack of knowledge – or so I was told.

The same Mr. Evans is also one of the Directors of the Spitfire Heritage Trust and additionally the more recent Spitfire Trust (both are Limited Companies) and he has used it for some of their fund raising events. I trust the society gained a good rental fee each time from Mr Evans? The society accounts as usual don’t show anything specific, however.

As the society is now, apparently, going to be dissolved by the three remaining Trustees at a forthcoming meeting, one assumes that Mr Evans would then wish to pay a fair price price for the replica that he estimated, in 2012, at around £40,000 – if he wishes to offer to acquire it! This figure is coincidently about the same amount it cost the society to build the facsimile K5054 in 1988 to 2003 and to which you, Mark, and many others contributed at the time.

But the glass fibre replica could not go into the society dissolving sale of assets. Tangmere Museum only exchanged it for the facsimile with a note saying that if either organisation is dissolved in the future the facsimile or the replica returns to their original owner.

That documentation DOES exist. I checked this morning. That should please the many members who are about to resist the closure of the Spitfire Society.

And there was possibly a greater loss than money as a result of the concert fiasco

Moggy

Ouch…

T J