I’m looking into the feasibility of a cockpit rebuild for Spitfire T9 trainer.
I’ve found however that there is scant information in relation to the cockpit layouts. Even simple things such as the second instrument panel drawings seem to be non existent. Is any body aware of any plans or drawing that may assist.
The second canopy looks to be raised higher than the first but that appears to be basically a case of a larger canopy rather than anything to do with construction or the layout of frames
In order to add a second seat which additional frames were built. Obviously frame 11 would be for the pilot in front. Did they just add another frame 9 or 10 and then a smaller version of 11 for the second seat ?.
Any hints or tips as to where to source this information would be gratefully accepted.
By: DazDaMan - 11th June 2017 at 18:01
If flown solo it would always have been from the front seat.
Except, of course, during the filming of Battle of Britain, when a camera occupied the front seat of TE308….
[ATTACH=CONFIG]254031[/ATTACH]
By: Tony Kearns - 11th June 2017 at 14:28
In the Peter Arnold /Tony Kearns article you refer to. It was the late Commandant Jerry O’ Connor (later Brig. Gen JB O ‘Connor GOC Irish Air Corps) who explained the difficult taxying problems from the rear cockpit. It was not really a problem for him but his favourite was the Hurricane and his utter dislike was another Hawker design, the Hector.
Regards
Tony K
By: Robert Whitton - 10th June 2017 at 20:34
I think this is ML407 at Strathallan. Now G-LFIX.
By: Robert Whitton - 10th June 2017 at 20:26
The accident report for PV202 is interesting from the point of view of vision from either cockpit.
The normal circuit height at Goodwood is 1,200 feet agl but it was the usual practice in the Spitfire to fly an oval visual circuit at a height of about 900 agl. This gives optimum visibility from the front cockpit and is particularly important for the rear seat occupant as forward visibility is obstructed by the front cockpit and its occupant, and downwards visibility is obstructed by the wing. After take off the aircraft is flown in a continuous climbing turn onto the downwind leg and spacing is achieved by tracking the wingtip along the runway. When the wingtip is opposite the planned touchdown point a continuous descending turn is flown onto final approach, aiming to roll the wings level shortly before the touchdown point. Ideally, the airspeed at this point should be about 85 mph.
The view from the front seat of a 2 seater should be slightly improved because its more forward than a single seater but it must be quite tricky to fly from the rear cockpit. Peter Arnold/Tony Kearn’s excellent article “Spitfires over the Emerald Isle” in the October 2016 edition of “Aeroplane” mentions that “taxiing from the rear cockpit could be challenging”. The IAC aircraft were in the Advanced Flying Section so I suppose the rear Instructor would have been more a safety pilot for trainees who had advanced through Chipmunks and Provosts. If flown solo it would always have been from the front seat. I have been facinated by the Spitfire for many years and was able to view a two seater in 1972 thanks to Dick Richardson. This of course was G-AVAV/ MJ772 at Strathallan.
By: Bob - 10th June 2017 at 16:28
what sort of view do you get from the rear cockpit?
Not that good from my experience (MJ627) – could just about see the front cockpit’s rear view mirror.
From what I have read, I think that the original specification for MT818 was for it to be fitted with four .303 MGs when it was originally converted but I also read the rear cockpit made the instructors view poor for gunnery instruction…
By: David Burke - 10th June 2017 at 14:52
The front cockpit is forward to allow for the installation of the rear cockpit. I imagine a lot to do with getting the C of F within acceptable limits. The raising of the rear seat is to give the instructor a better view of what is going on. A read of the accident report for PV202 is worthwhile.
By: Robert Whitton - 10th June 2017 at 10:08
“Aeroplane” July 2017 page 53 has a photo of the rear cockpit on NH341 under construction.
I see that the Pilot in Control sits in the front cockpit and I wonder if when in use as a trainer if the instructor sat in the rear? Did the moving forward of the front cockpit by 13″ produce a better view over the nose and secondly what sort of view do you get from the rear cockpit? The seat is higher up but the instrument panel seems to a lot higher up. The “Grace” Spitfire and MH367 have a tunnel between the two cockpits similar to the Sea Fury T20, the door is smaller and higher up and the rear seat is the same height as the front one so does this produce a better view than the T9 layout? I havn’t had the pleasure (yet) of either of these views.
By: flyingblind - 7th June 2017 at 11:47
To date these have been the best photos/details I’ve found.
Trying to work out the dimensions of the second ‘frame 11’ and the smaller cockpit door. The windscreen hoop for the second screen looks abnormally large
By: Trolly Aux - 7th June 2017 at 08:32
you have the winning lottery ticket with that early Dunlop Hurri grip!!!
By: Rocketeer - 7th June 2017 at 07:38
Winning lottery ticket would be nice!!
By: QldSpitty - 7th June 2017 at 00:54
Seriously mate is the anything you dont have!!:eek:
By: Rocketeer - 6th June 2017 at 20:29
Here’s a pic of a lump of a real rear cockpit panel
By: Fournier Boy - 6th June 2017 at 19:28
It’s very different. Go to Hendon, sit in the archives for a few days and you can get all the drawings.
FB
Sign In
June 6, 2017 at 7:11 pm