Spitfire to Pima

In the U.S., as well as the UK, the majority of visitors to museums are members if the general public. And the Spitfire is a far more famous aircraft than those you cite. The Spitfire is obviously a more famous name.

Totally agree with you – must be why there are so many Spitfires in the US.

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SNFU, despite your statements that you have nothing against the museum, you seem very keen to label it…and American enthusiasts as parochial.

I HONESTLY have nothing against Pima. If I have any problem with Pima at all it is because I keep have to reference it whilst making these posts, which drags that museum back into the discussion!
I do not have a problem with the Spitfire going to to a museum, although for the sake of discussion I would feel happier were it to go on display elsewhere in the world where a Spitfire has not been seen for a while (if at all) since the time they were in service. This is just my view.

Enthusiasts full stop are parochial – look at the popularity of the Spitfire on this (ok, mainly British) forum; another forum in another country would worship their own aeronautical demigod. But I suspect if you took a poll of casual airshow goers (in both Britain and US) and ask for their favourite aeroplane then the top three is going to be heavily weighted along national lines: it is not right or wrong – it is just their opinion.

I did have a tongue in – my – cheek thing about what other aeroplanes the RAFM might be offering out for loan, but that is my fault for posting when tired.

I have not seen anyone firing flack at Pima on here regarding displaying a Spitfire. I have read understandable concern about a rare mark of Spitfire being chosen as the loan example.

In 1941??

Like I said, Hollywood history lol

In 1941??

Ah the innocence of someone who hasn’t had to sit through that Hollywood drivel. :applause:

Ben Affleck winning the Battle of Britain single handedly in Pearl Harbor)

In 1941??

There always seems to be complaints that the USA doesn’t always fully acknowledge the contributions of it’s allies in WW2 (look at Hollywood movies that re-write history like U-571, Ben Affleck winning the Battle of Britain single handedly in Pearl Harbor), yet Pima seems to be getting a load of flack for wanting to display a Spitfire alongside their other British aircraft. Personally I think we have more than enough Spits.

the Spitfire was not a major type in US service

Hmm.

They used the Mk.V, Mk.VIII, Mk.IX and Mk.XI, and that’s not including the Eagle Squadrons.

…Spitfire was not a major type in US service, just a famous name with a bit of pizzazz about it.

Wonder if Pima would have accepted the Typhoon instead of a Spitfire…? Or maybe the Wellington?;o)

“Piddling” the Americans again?
You must be to put forward a fallacious argument. 🙂 🙂 😉

In the U.S., as well as the UK, the majority of visitors to museums are members if the general public. And the Spitfire is a far more famous aircraft than those you cite. The Spitfire is obviously a more famous name.
Go to your nearest Boots and ask people (quickly, before they ask you to leave) to name a WWII fighter. Not many will name the Typhoon, despite its war record.

Give Pima SOME credit, they have a broader collection if UK types than many UK collections.
Instead of casting aspersions on their collections policy, ask yourself how many UK collections have an American aircraft as obscure to the locals as a Bolingbroke or Gannet?
It provides a home for the Shack when many of it’s 8 Sqdn sisters were scrapped or face uncertain futures.

One more thing…they did fancy a Hurricane…so they’ve had one (albeit a “bitsa” which purists will dismiss) on display for a few years. Check out their website when you get some time, you might learn something about the collection. 😉

SNFU, despite your statements that you have nothing against the museum, you seem very keen to label it…and American enthusiasts as parochial.

I was not referring to anyone on particular.

If anyone want to see a flying Mk XIV they just have to go to North Weald.

Um, and that one is available to view the same hours as Hendon is open, is it?;o)

I can’t see why all the fuss about MT847’s trip to Pima. Just seeing the same arguments when it was learnt that the Typhoon was off to Canada for a bit.
Both will be looked after and both will be back in a few years.

(Again) If it is I to whom you are referring…again I have no concern with Pima (see post 66, above). I have no concern with it being a Spitfire (again, post 66). But, again, there are already many Spitfires on the American continent (more post 66) so that other than its location it is not exactly a national exclusive – which is exactly the opposite of the Typhoon , the only complete example of an otherwise extinct breed and therefore a world exclusive.
And again I shall say that there are places where they have not seen a Spitfire in several decades, where it might be a positive move for Britain to loan or swap a Spitfire for something unusual or different for a few years; it needn’t even be a Spitfire, but the draw of a ‘glamourous’ Spit over something more mundane would undoubtedly be the clincher. I’d better stop before JB gets twitchy (honestly, J, I am not against Pima, just bemused about adding to the population. Did they not fancy a Hurricane?)

One point about the Typhoon v. Spitfire loan thing – I’d imagine lots of Canadians flew the Typhoon whereas the Spitfire was not a major type in US service, just a famous name with a bit of pizzazz about it.

Wonder if Pima would have accepted the Typhoon instead of a Spitfire…? Or maybe the Wellington?;o)

I need to go back to Pima – it would be nice to see it when it isn’t raining (honest!), my joke about not being bothered as I come from Manchester fell somewhat flat. Also I need to take the photos again following a mishandled tidy up of my computer that deleted all 900+ photos of the place and USS Intrepid at San Diego.

I hope that the “just another Spitfire” really isn’t the case, because a similar thing happened to a well known British plastic model company a few years ago, when it changed over to yet another owner and had a lady CEO appointed. When looking to save money she questioned why did they have to have three Messerschmidt’s in the range until someone pointed out, one was the most famous German WW.2 fighter, the second was the first combat Jet fighter and the third was an equally famous twin engined WW.2 fighter. I believe the reply was “does it really matter”.

John

Don’t know about a B-47. How about a B-45 loaned in ‘Operation Ju-Jitsu’ RAF markings?

I can’t see why all the fuss about MT847’s trip to Pima. Just seeing the same arguments when it was learnt that the Typhoon was off to Canada for a bit.
Both will be looked after and both will be back in a few years.

If anyone want to see a flying Mk XIV they just have to go to North Weald.

The thing I really want to see “over here” on loan is a B-47.
As for the Spitfire, why not send one to Pima? As others have said it’s hardly a backyard museum with a few mouldering airframes. Still, I can see the point about it bring the FR14 instead of something more commonplace though.

I’m sure they would, but disassembly, shipping and re-assembly would be extra. Not to mention the two-three acres (preferably indoors, thank you) needed to park the thing. 🙂

Makes the cost ($5,000 or so) of a container for a Spitfire seem like small beer.

We have an Sr71 and a B24 at Duxford… thankfully nobody stopped them coming this way.

And perhaps, one day, PIMA will loan the UK their B36. Well, I can dream 😀

I just got off the phone to Pima…
SNAFU…you better sit down and take a drink….

It will be loaned for a period of 10 years.
It will be shipped at Pima’s expense in a container.

Pima currently gets almost 200,000 visitors a year, so it will be well seen and I’m sure, much appreciated.
The museum has more than 300 aircraft (about half indoors) and 125,000 artifacts (excluding photos).

What’s not to like about that? Sounds good to me.

We have an Sr71 and a B24 at Duxford… thankfully nobody stopped them coming this way.

Can I charge the drink to you?

Of course, meet me at the Jackdaw Inn in 30 minutes.

I agree with Cking, I wish the RAF had loaned or given more a.c. to Pima, it has the space and climate (two qualities many UK museums lack, despite having the best of intentions) to preserve aircraft that would otherwise be scrapped. Perhaps their continued existence would have enable some to eventually return to the UK…when some currently on outdoor display have corroded away…or perhaps simply to increase the world’s population of any given type by one.

I would have liked a Nimrod at Pima. Like the Vulcan, they were always popular at the U.S. events they attended (I saw several in the 70s and 80s) and their link to the Comet makes them particularly historic.