Spitfire versus Hurricane

Re 11

Do you know what time it was ? And the weather?

Bulgaria had no Hurricanes.

Rumania planned to purchase 50 Huricanes but by the fall of France in June 1940 Britain suspended further deliveries leaving Rumania with only 12.

Romania, that is the country I was thinking of.

And yes, forgot about the Yugoslavian ones.

Close – the “Battle of Barking Creek” was September 1939.

I know that this doesn’t square with the ‘opposing forces’ mentioned in the opening comment but, didn’t the “Battle of Barking Creek” over London in 1940 in a case of mistaken identity, involve the shooting down of some RAF Hurricanes by a number of RAF Spitfires?

Not quite what the opening question was about but, close.

Age tells – or was it just youth that didn’t query the fuel we used – or its performance?? We had no problem in scrambling after the 88s & engaging them.

“Thanks to Henry Broquet for his pioneering work in developing a fuel catalyst
in Russia during WW2 which improved the poor quality of the local fuel used by
British Hurricane aircraft”

Shame that Peter Fearn, who carried the Broquet flag for so long, is deceased.

= Tim

Tim. I gather the Finns didn’t like the Hurricane much so retained it for interceptor use as city defense. Presumably this was partly caused by a lack of 100 octane fuel, preventing the use of full boost and so limiting climb and maximum speeds.

I’d be interested in any comments you have about flying Hurricanes with the lower-octane Russian fuels. Or did you fly with a 100 octane reserve? RR were to spend some time working with the Russians on refurbishing Merlins in pretty poor states, but that was later.

Whether this was because of such early experience or not, the Russians set up a dedicated express supply line to ensure that their P-39 units were kept supplied with 100 octane fuel.

Graham’s post – when at Vaenga, we always wondered what it would be like meeting an enemy Hurricane!

= Tim

After the Bessarabian campaign the remaining Hurricanes were sent to IAR Brasov for overhaul but they were no longer used in combat because of a shortage of spare parts and the possibility that Rumanian AA might mistake them for Soviet Hurricanes. Therefore the possibility of any of their Hurricanes encountering Soviet Spitfires is very close to nil. The last known flight of a Rumanian Hurricane was 8th August 1944 when a pilot defected to Turkey in yellow 8.

Interesting. Are you then aware of the re-equipment of Esk.51, their respective dates involved and what they might have been using in action? Mr Craciunoiu only mentions that the remaining Hurricanes were sent to Brasov “in 1943” (no date given), whilst Mr Ionescu shows Hurricanes at least “on strength” with Esk.51 in “2Q 1943”, and mentions that Esk.53 received Bf 109Gs (1943) “in replacement”.

Have you done further work on this topic? What more can you tell us?

Bulgaria had no Hurricanes.

Yugoslavia purchased 12 before the war and another 12 were delivered in the first quarter of 1940. Licence production was to build another 100. Probably 18 were delivered to units before the 6th April 1941. A further 6 made it to military units after war with Germany commenced. After hostilities ceased at least 5 Hurricanes were captured by German troops at Zemen. Later the Germans sold several Hurricanes to the Rumanians. At least three, some say six.

Rumania planned to purchase 50 Huricanes but by the fall of France in June 1940 Britain suspended further deliveries leaving Rumania with only 12. They were used during the Bessarabian campaign credited with 32 confirmed and 3 unconfirmed victories in the first 10 days without a single combat loss. The only Rumanian Hurricane to be shot down occurred on the 12 September 1941, captain Rosecu lost his life when he became a victim of Soviet I-16s.

After the Bessarabian campaign the remaining Hurricanes were sent to IAR Brasov for overhaul but they were no longer used in combat because of a shortage of spare parts and the possibility that Rumanian AA might mistake them for Soviet Hurricanes. Therefore the possibility of any of their Hurricanes encountering Soviet Spitfires is very close to nil. The last known flight of a Rumanian Hurricane was 8th August 1944 when a pilot defected to Turkey in yellow 8.

To find the answer to this musing we would like to turn our attention to the south, rather than north. The Romanians operated a fair number of Hurricanes (mostly Mk Is it would seem). Eskadrila 51 certainly retained a number of these in service during 1943 (along with an odd assortment of IARs, late 109Es and He 112s), and possibly Esk. 53, as well. Esk. 51 fought a number of battles over the Kuban during the spring/summer of 1943 against the Russian’s 57 GvIAP, who at the time were flying Spitfire Mk Vbs.

At the next opportunity someone will have to check with Mr Rybin to see if there are any identifiable VVS claims for Romanian Hurricanes in this area. I would suspect there must have been.

I believe the Bulgarians also had Hurries, which may have flown axis.

The Finns had Hurricanes whilst the Russians had Spitfires (and Hurricanes!) but I know of no recorded combats.