Spitfire XIX structure

Along a similar vein..

I was talking with Spitfire veteran Tom Neil at the DX show. Among many others, he flew the Spitfire Mk XII with 41 Squadron. Interestingly in our conversation he referred to the XII’s converted from Mk V’s and those converted from Mk VIII’s.

This logically would be the serials split in the ‘EN’ & ‘MB’ ranges, the latter visibly having the retracting tail wheel.

This begs the question – Did the ‘MB’ serial XII’s have the strengthened Mk VIII wing?

We know that the reason why the MK VIII is out of time sequence with the Mk IX is because of delays with the strengthening upgrade, resulting in a stop gap measure, the IX, that went on to become the second most prolific mark produced.

Mark

Commonality

AP 1565T & W, 2nd edition, April 1946, is the Pilot’s Notes for Spitfire XIV & XIX. So clearly there was operational commonality.

Mark

Sometimes it is the same part,just with four extra holes in it.It,s a real b@ast@rd trying to backdate parts sometimes…

What it tells me, is look really carefully at the drawing numbers, when making bits, as many of the changes between the mks are really subtle, and to avoid the need for a bigger offcut/scrap bin, its better to make something that you can use!

That’s why I just write about them, act as talking ballast and clean them – aviation went downhill when they started measuring the planks. “That’ll be about right, Mr Sopwith!”

What it tells me, is look really carefully at the drawing numbers, when making bits, as many of the changes between the mks are really subtle, and to avoid the need for a bigger offcut/scrap bin, its better to make something that you can use!

Thank you very much gentlemen.

As ever, it’s little bit more complicated than a one line comment can encompass, although Stewart’s confirmation seems a good summary.

Can see that the part number for the top spar on the wing is 39008-sheet 62 for the MkXIX.Wing bolts are still 300 numbers and I think frame 5 is 39027 sheet 14.Sorry to butt in but I had a MkXIX manual handy.

And what does that tell mere mortals like me?

Can see that the part number for the top spar on the wing is 39008-sheet 62 for the MkXIX.Wing bolts are still 300 numbers and I think frame 5 is 39027 sheet 14.Sorry to butt in but I had a MkXIX manual handy.

Pick and Mix

Overall you can see that the PR MK XIX has a strong family connection with the Mk XIV fighter. Prop, engine, fuselage fuel/oil, empennage etc.

My understanding is that the ‘Bowser’ wing of the Mk XI, which was Mk V derived, would not fit the XIV directly by virtue of the wing bolt sizes, upper and lower, and the width of wing boom pack, widened by two side plates of 16swg, from memory. Plus the obvious Griffon radiator pack implications.

To make the fuselage carry through spars of a Mk XIV fit the bowser wing you effectively retro convert that local area back to Mk V/IX/XI standard.

My guess is that for the less stressed photo recce work, compared to the fighting role, it was more cost and time effective to re-engineer the carry through spars on the fuselage rather than incorporate the Mk VIII/XIV wing reinforcements in to the bowser wing.

Fluffy. Any comments?

Mark

Essentially, I’d thought it was a pressurised PR equipped Mk.XIV, but someone said it was based on the Mk.V with a Griffon fitted

You are right – they are thinking of the Mk 12 (I am not suggesting a Mk 12 is pressurised though).

Confirmation of the above; Supermarine specification 475 says mkXIV fuselage,with mkXI wings.

The only reference I have immediately to hand is the Putnam Supermarine tome.

That says: MkXIV fuselage, tail and engine, modified PR.XI wings and the PR.X pressure cabin.