Spotters of the 1960's…

On 17 July 1959 I flew in Valetta VW197 from Blackbushe to Ypenburg. Here are a few photos I took that day.

Valetta VW197 before leaving
Viscount G-APTB and nose of R5D3 56521 from inside the Valetta
Viking G-AHPL
Dutch F-84Fs at Ypenburg
Dutch C-47B ZU-17
56521 from inside the Valetta

Whauw.
That”s nice.

And quoting Jim…
“” Belgian Spit MK912 attached as taken from speeding coach. “”
MK912 also a former RNlAF spit ex H-59 / H-119.
Where en when did you take the picture ?

Thanks a lot lot !!
Sorry for this late reply, but the year isn’y over yet.
Have a nice time.

Not everybody was well behaved back then ,it seems…..Air Pictorial Feb64

I remember that incident quite well, though I never heard if they discovered who the culprits were.
I seem to recall a story of youths/spotters trying to remove the registration from an Avro York at LAP north side. No idea if it was true, but I think they would have needed a drill and saw to have actually done the deed!
I did act as custodian of the fabric off a Tiger Moth, when Alan Brett wanted to move a set of wings I had been minding for him. He decided they would be less likely to fly off his Rover’s roof rack if the fabric was removed. This he did and I subsequently passed said fabric to a chap at Gransden, who I believe used the fabric as a basis to establish the identity for a Tiger fuse he had aquired. Needless to say it wasn’t the same aircraft, but hey ho, it got another restoration underway. As a post script, Alan Brett spotted his fabric tacked to the hangar wall at Gransden and got a bit shirty! I did point out that he had told me to burn it, so he had effectively given me ownership.

That Kidlington post is interesting. Living in Abingdon, Kidlington was a happy hunting ground for me – from the mid 60s till around 1973/4.

Although there was a public car park with a good view over the apron I used to wander off with my notebook and “binos” and later a camera. I was aware however this had to be done with a certain amount of stealth as we were never really made welcome.

Recall once I bumped into Sheila Scott who was “fettling” her famous Piper Comanche and I nervously asked her to pose for a photo by her aircraft. She agreed but recall her being very shy and self effacing.

In 1972 I snapped the first BA Helicopters Bell 212 ground running outside of the BEAS hangar and sent the print to Aviation News (remember them? – newspaper format – I rather liked it).

They published it ! My 15 seconds of fame!

Not everybody was well behaved back then ,it seems…..Air Pictorial Feb64

Re flights in Vanguards. I’m not sure if I’ll have a written note of this anywhere but, towards the end of the 1960s, I several times used a very late flight back from Glasgow Renfrew to Heathrow, invariably in a BEA Vanguard. My future wife was in Glasgow and the tickets were quite cheap. I always wondered why they put on a flight so late and, one day, I asked and was told that it was used by Royal Mail to fly post down to London. I guess the Vanguard was suitable because its freight hold was pretty capacious, wasn’t it?

Thanks. On balance, I think it was a trip to Biggin Hill and I know that I went there on occasions by London Transport (green) country bus (out of Kingston I seem to recall). However, if I were using the bus, I would not have made a trip to Croydon on the same day. It is possible that I got a lift from someone with a car or motorbike.

I certianly do recall using the country bus to get to Gatwick (going over Epsom Downs by the racecourse) though I also cycled to Gatwick once or twice, but that was pretty tiring, what with Reigate Hill and all.

Looking at my diary, I did go to Redhill, Gatwick and Blackbushe on Thursday, 14 April 1960, so (a) to do that, I must have got a ride with another, older enthusuast, so it’s possible I did the same on Saturday, 18 April, and (b) I’m unlikely to have gone to the same places 4 days apart, which narrows down the options a bit more.

About 21 were ordered. CF-TKF, TKV and TKG crashed or were destroyed, not sure what the distinction would be there. CF-TKH, TKT, TKB and TKC were broken up at Perpignan. CF-TKE was scrapped at Southend, TKJ at Manston and TKM, TKS at Montreal. The remainder were de-registered presumably suffering similar fates to those above.

Main post-Canada users were Invicta in the UK and Europe Aero Services in France. They all returned to Europe; none remained in Canada.

Aah! Fond memories of Vanguard flights to Malta in the late sixties and many in Air Anglia Heralds.

AA did have a Herald – briefly – on loan from British Midland. But most of the fleet was Fokker F-27. When AA and BIA merged to form Air UK, the fleet tended to swap around – so Heralds were used on AA routes and F-27s on BIA etc.

I logged a visit to BigginHill 6Dec59 and of those on your list I there recorded EI-ALE, WD302, NP179,G-APUR, ‘PCS, ‘PCT…..so I reckon you visited Biggin hill (and maybe Croydon same day?)
There’s a nice photo of N2718A (with spotters?) on
http://airteamimages.net/aero-commander-500_N2718A_-private_106521.html
I didn’t see F-BJAH Viking but on 16Jun1960 at Biggin logged XB-FIP Viking which sounds exotic (presumably later ferried via PWK see
http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1027977/ )

Can’t remember taking the Greenline to Biggin Hill but I did one or two heroic Green Rover (London Country Bus)trips Staines-Reigate-Gatwick-Redhill- Biggin-Reigate-Staines….could be regarded as M25 survey expeditions, I guess, and possibly beatnik duffle coat rather than anorak.

There is no mention of locations on the previous diary page either (18 April 1960) but it starts with four detailed entries: WP-KCV Rapide wing red reggie, N2718A Aero Commander, F-BJAH Viking, EI-ALE SCAN 30.

Below that is a section of 18 RAF Tiger Moths, starting with N6457 and ending with T6103.

Below that is another section of five Chipmunks: starts with WD302 and ends with WZ 854 (I think).

Then a set of 4 “Procters”, starting with NP179.

Below that is a long list of about 30 civilan registrations, all with the “G-A” bit missing. Most are not identified as to type but the exceptions are: “PUR” (?) and “PXR” Tri Pacers and “PCS” and “PCT” EP9s.

Can anyone suggest where I might have gone on Easter Monday, 18 April 1960?

Nowhere near Kenley or Croydon that weekend, I am afraid. I was at Polebrook with the Perkins Gliding Club!
Anyone want to know their equipment at that time? I don’t suppose so, but you never know.

A longshot for you Croydon wallahs. I was at RAF Kenley for the weekend 30th Nov/Dec 1st 1958 for the ATC Aircraft Recognition Contest finals (done by Gerald Pollinger of Aircraft of the World and Observers Book fame) – we came second! Anyway, on the Sunday morning standing waiting for a train back into London a C-47 flew over low. The US markings on it were clearly visible and it was blue in colour. We assumed it had just taken off from Croydon. Any thoughts Gents please?

Most of the Croydon residents migrated to Biggin Hill, which had only just de-militarised, so maybe you saw the Viking there? (704 or 705 Greenline coach from, what was The Coach and Horses) That was an RF Mick… to Biggin Hill, via Victoria…:D

Thanks for the various replies.

I did go to Wisley a couple of times (I think it was the days when I went to Ripley for the helicopter rally or garden party or something similar). There wasn’t much to see at Wisley – maybe the odd Valiant parked there. I certainly went on a tour of the Weybridge factory several times, so i suspect that was where I saw the TCA Vanguards and the Austrian Viscounts. For those interested in the ground travel aspects, that would have been a bike ride

As for the day before, Croydon is a definite possibility, though I went there rarely. I went there by bus, I think, and that was a long journey from the LAP area. I didn’t realise that Croydon had closed as early as 1959, which might also explain why my visits were so few. I looked some of the civil aircraft on G-INFO and a couple, at least, have Croydon connections. G-APLI was a Tiger Moth registered with Rollasons that went to Sweden in June 1960 and G-APBM was a Rapide that went abroad in July 1960. Not all the others I checked were so clear.

I looked again at what I’d written about the Rapide wing and it looks as though I wrote a “W” and then overwrote a “V”, so VP-KCV it was. Thanks. But, if it was Croydon and Croydon closed in October 1959, how come I noted a French-registered Viking and an American-registered Aero Commander there in April 1960? Is there something I’m missing?

Sorry, I meant G-BSKP.
I will amend my original post too.
Thanks for pointing it out.

Another strange one from Belgium, August 1959: Spitfire XIV on a pole at Beauvechain, marked MN-350 (350 Sqd) and SG-3 under wing, but is really SG-31, ex RN201. Maybe the “1” of the underwing serial had been washed away, but it certainly looked as if the phoney SG-3 had been added after withdrawal from service. Rescued in 1990 it became G-ASKP, and flew as RN201 from 2002. Sold to USA as N201TB.

Shome mishtake surely ?

ASKP is a DH 82a Moff

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&tbo=d&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&rlz=1C2RNPN_enGB407&q=g-askp&oq=g-askp&gs_l=hp.3..0i30.523.4222.0.4544.6.6.0.0.0.0.126.528.5j1.6.0.les%3B..0.0…1c.1.fevTYY3ChrY&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=5e3a588fe1463c4a&bpcl=39580677&biw=1440&bih=785

Lee…You can checkout the Fifties bus routes on
http://www.londonbuses.co.uk/ and Ian’s Bus Stop is also good
My Red Rover bus route from Heston to Croydon ca. 1959 was 111 or 232(RT) to Hounslow. 37(RT) to Wandsworth, 630 Trolleybus to Purley Way, 115 (RT) to Croydon Airport….Croydon Airport closed just before the Trolleybuses were replaced by Routemasters (630 was replaced by 220)

You are such an anorak Mick…lol. Besides you missed out the RTW’s and don’t get me started on the T’s & TD’s out of Uxbridge! 😀

jim jobe

The exceptions to the Varsity WF, WJ and WL serial letters were the two prototypes – VX828 and VX 835 plus a late addition to the fleet, XD 366.

There were, of course, others that relinquished their RAF serials for sale overseas (Jordanian Royal Flight and the Swedish Air Force) and for UK civil regisration. But that’s it.

I must admit I never did by Bus but regularly cycled from Mortlake, bit of a journey but in the 50s you could walk anywhere you wanted to at Croydon there were no restrictions

Lee…You can checkout the Fifties bus routes on
http://www.londonbuses.co.uk/ and Ian’s Bus Stop is also good
My Red Rover bus route from Heston to Croydon ca. 1959 was 111 or 232(RT) to Hounslow. 37(RT) to Wandsworth, 630 Trolleybus to Purley Way, 115 (RT) to Croydon Airport….Croydon Airport closed just before the Trolleybuses were replaced by Routemasters (630 was replaced by 220)

You are right Mick. I had two visits to Croydon, both gaining access through a hole in the perimeter fence! It was still open, just, on my 1st visit, when the Scan 30 was there, but it had a VP- reg that time. The 2nd visit it was still there by as EI-ALE. By that time most aircraft had gone and I can only remember the Avro 19 left.
There was also a historical day there, where I 1st saw some of the Shuttleworth aircraft, albeit all being static.
It was in those days quite a feat to travel around London at the age of 13/14. My journey to Croydon, from Hayes entailed the 98 bus to Hounslow, the 37 to Peckham and I think the 73 to Croydon. Would present day parents let their kids do that? I suppose the nanny state had yet to appear in 1960…

Yes, but it’s not publishable.

I hope you got your own back!
Jim