Stealth Mk 1

– I thought they used a special RADAR absorbent paint these days?

its infra red absorbing paint, not radar.

Actually, the advantage of the Mosquito was its excellent performance. Remember that the black paint was mainly used against searchlights and therefore flak. The German radar was mainly used to direct their night fighters to the British bomber formations. The Mosquito generally could outperform the German nightfighters – speed, climb rate etc.

In 1940 the RAF did RDF (later called radar) trials on the south coast at Woth Matravers.
Dave

It’s actually Worth Matravers, I only know because there’s a rather wonderful timewarp of a pub there called the Square and Compass – still pour ale from a row of barrels along the back of the bar – no pumps. Shouldn’t think the place has changed in over half a century

First dicovered it on a biology field trip over 30 years ago and been visiting whenever we’re in the area ever since – it’s still exactly the same as when I first visited -not even a new coat of paint

Well worth a visit if you’re in the Corfe Castle area of Dorset 😉

In 1940 the RAF did RDF (later called radar) trials on the south coast at Woth Matravers. This was done with gliders, as we where expecting the Germans to arive this way. One glider was built by Slingsby with minimal metal fittings to see what the radar reflection would be like. I have never heard the results of these trials where. The wings of this glider still survive they are fitted to another fusleage of the same type, a Kirby Kite 1. This is owned by my father and myself at the moment, but soon to move Haddenhan where it flew in 1941.

Dave

The Mossie was really a true 1st Multirole , and stealthy aircraft .
Wood being a very poor conductor and inter weaved laminated construction very much like today’s composite construction .

The stealth products from the Skunk Works were not the first attempt at making Stealth Aircraft. Making aircraft ‘invisible’ to the enemy is not as new as you might think.

Bri 🙂

the Northrop flying wings were a major headache to the USAF radar stations when they were being tested in the late 40’s/eraly 50’s (?) Unable to get a trace until right on top of them – as for Mossies, didn’t the wooden airframe reflect/refract less of a radar return?

I was reading a while ago that the Mosquito was almost invisible to German ground Radar until quite late in 1944 and could only be picked up at quite close ranges within about 10 miles i think was the figure quoted.

But you could paint the F117 pink it would not make it any less stealthy then if it was painted black.

curlyboy

– I thought they used a special RADAR absorbent paint these days?

J Boyle

The ugly black did reduce the speed…

My father was a Lancaster pilot during WW2 (RCAF attached to RAF), after the end of hostilities there was a huge delay in getting shipped home and many make work projects took place.

One was the weighing of a Lanc painted, then speed trials/rate of climb. The aircraft was then stripped of all paint and re tested.

My father was the pilot during the tests and told me there was a several hundred pound difference in empty weight (can’t remember exactly how much) and a fairly major jump in speed and rate of climb (again can’t remember exactly how much).

Reports were made and forwarded…lord knows what ever happened to them.

Tom H

interesting topic

Can anyone explain why the later Lanc MKX’s had gloss black noses but matt black underside and sides of fuselage?

Re the black, its worth remembering that the RAF used three different blacks during WW2. This first one used the prewar black. Then a later (even more matt) black was introduced. As noted this did have an affect on aircraft performance. I believe that this was first formally noted by De Havilland who did tests on a Mosquito. This was then tested at Boscombe Down. As a result a gloss black was introduced as the standard from 1943 (from memory).

A number of tests were done by the RAF and the view remained that on balance black was the best colour.

BTW, the Germans did use black for their night aircraft also.

First attempt AFAIK was the German attempt at invisibility in WW1 when they coated some Fokker monoplanes IIRC with a clear cellophane type material. It wasn’t all that successful as light glinted off it and the material couldn’t be properly taughtened like doped fabric.

I recall reading that “lamp black” (As “Lindy’s Lad” suggests…simply another word for matt paint?) would cut the speed of an aircraft by a significant amount.
Therefore, it was not too popular. True?

It also turned out to be less than perfect for concealment of aircraft at night. Later in the war, most night camouflages (Luftwaffe, Mosquito) were based on grey rather than black. BTW, it would be interesting to know why Bomber Command didn’t depart from black.

I recall reading that “lamp black” (As “Lindy’s Lad” suggests…simply another word for matt paint?) would cut the speed of an aircraft by a significant amount.
Therefore, it was not too popular. True?

A couple of questions…
Was “lamp black” replaced by paint?
Was the underside of RAF bombers matt or gloss?
What about night fighters? Wouldn’t gloss be better at reflecting light?

The sooty night fighter finish was called “RDM2” – did cut the speed down and apparently weathered badly. It was different from the stardard “night” black paint.

I was reading a while ago that the Mosquito was almost invisible to German ground Radar until quite late in 1944 and could only be picked up at quite close ranges within about 10 miles i think was the figure quoted.

But you could paint the F117 pink it would not make it any less stealthy then if it was painted black.

curlyboy

I recall reading that “lamp black” (As “Lindy’s Lad” suggests…simply another word for matt paint?) would cut the speed of an aircraft by a significant amount.
Therefore, it was not too popular. True?

A couple of questions…
Was “lamp black” replaced by paint?
Was the underside of RAF bombers matt or gloss?
What about night fighters? Wouldn’t gloss be better at reflecting light?

As far as I am aware, the ‘sooty black’ paint was just normal Black Matt paint. As soon as it was discovered that radar was a useful tool to find aircraft, there have been those involved with finding out how to beat it. The first method at radar deception would most likely be ‘Window’.