Stefan Karwowski And The F8F Bearcat

Game set and match! Is anyone seriously in doubt that this incident is extremely dangerous?

And again, Neil Williams was a great display pilot.

Which incident are you referring to….?

If you are referring to the photo I posted, then yes, you really are confused 😉 as that is Neil Williams flying MH434 in that photo from the the film, A Bridge Too Far.

I don’t think anyone actually slagged Orion off in fairness, but he has certainly caused a bit of feedback on this thread. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but from what view point does he base his statement on that started it all?, is it from his own piloting experience or from a laymans point of view?
Reference the TT, I think it is fantastic but no margin for error.

Without looking at a dictionary i will go with what my feelings of what a “stunt” is.For me it is an activity which has a high chance of failure if it goes wrong,i e tight rope walking, stunt flying as in the barnstorming type and wing walking days of 90 years ago ,no room for errors,climbing up buildings without a safety rope.They to me are managed stunts where practice has reduced the odds of it going wrong BUT it can happen and frequently does and when it does its pretty nasty.
In the older days there were displays that pushed the boundaries and had there been a hiccup would have ended in a disaster or mishap.
Display flying to me is one as Orion correctly in my mind puts ,a pilot that flies the aircraft to show the aircraft off rather than to test the limits of the pilots capabilities.
Slagging Orion off in my mind is wrong,what one person classes as dangerous is what another finds as a challenge ,entertainment.What do people think of the TT Races?
I guess it depends on what happens if a pilot makes a genuine mistake or actually creates a problem through trying something that was out of his or the planes skill range.
Old bold pilots once but maybe now a days good safe and graceful 🙂

Nobody I know in the aviation world would actually use the term ‘stunt flying’. It appears to be a hang over from pre-war days when the term was popularised, but it has since gone the way of ‘Loop the loop’ as a legacy term used by the sort of inadequate journalist, struggling to cope with an aviation story, who thinks that accidents are caused by ‘planes’ engines stalling, shortly after which they ‘plummet’.

Moggy

I think the term ‘stunt’ is rather ambiguous, people tend to have different ideas about what constitutes a stunt so perhaps the word is best avoided. Surely aerobatics that constitute part of the normal flight envelope of a type is not a stunt. How about flying under a bridge? Would that make Ray Hanna a stunt pilot? Or crazy flying routines?

Regarding Kawowski, I was fortunate to see him fly the Bearcat, Mustang, and Gnat; and very memorable displays they were too. They certainly wouldn’t win the approval of the modern CAA I bet.

Game set and match! Is anyone seriously in doubt that this incident is extremely dangerous? Also, for Moggies benefit, I’m not at all confused but the fulminating that is going on here because I have had the temerity to be critical of Karwowski is showing that he and others are so tied up in the romance of flying that they are blind to the issues raised.

And again, Neil Williams was a great display pilot.

Regards

Orion You seem very confused to me. Do you have the benefit of any combat experience? I have personally known one Of Stefan Hunter Squadron mates most of my adult life, and my wife knew Stefan personally during the time he flew Hunters in the Middle East. The thing is when I watched him and others fly at air shows during the 80’s I never had that feeling of “oh god what’s he doing” I sometimes get at some of todays displays, despite all the regulations. They always looked totally in control. Yes accidents happen, but I have witnessed 2 accidents where so called display pilots lost control whilst turning at the end of the display line. And yes there were the Don Bullocks of this world who pushed large aircraft too far. But rather than fulminating some of us have a lifetime of watching air shows and rather know what we are talking about, or more precisely what we are looking at.

Game set and match! Is anyone seriously in doubt that this incident is extremely dangerous?

Regards

Total cobblers ! Who says this incident is dangerous ? Just you, I think.

It seems very rash to make damning and inflammatory judgments on the abilities of long-deceased pilots from the perspective of an individual whose experience of piloting and specifically specifically display flying is ( forgive me if I am mistaken here ) apparently zero.

Not an ‘incident’, though. A scene from ‘A Bridge Too Far’? And I believe it was Neil Williams flying the Spitfire?

Game set and match! Is anyone seriously in doubt that this incident is extremely dangerous? Also, for Moggies benefit, I’m not at all confused but the fulminating that is going on here because I have had the temerity to be critical of Karwowski is showing that he and others are so tied up in the romance of flying that they are blind to the issues raised.

And again, Neil Williams was a great display pilot.

Regards

Love that shot

I’m pretty sure it’s not you that is confused.

Moggy

Indeed.

Great TP, great display pilot and err, [cough]…….a great ‘film & stunt’ pilot.

I’m pretty sure it’s not you that is confused.

Moggy

Neil Williams wasn’t a stunt pilot and a display pilot then ?
Pitts special , Zlin , spitfire ? I’m confused .

A stunt pilot intends to thrill the audience without regard to risk, while a display pilot shows off the attributes of the aeroplane and minimises or excludes risk to himself. the aeroplane and the audience. Neil Williams was a display pilot, a brilliant display pilot.

Regards

Unbelievable!

Yes I have to agree with that comment moggy.
A stunt pilot flies without regard to risk ! Really ? Red arrows beware.
Thanks for posting the video of Stef, never saw him display and it’s hard to find much out about him on the net .
Would love to see a film of him flying G-FURY.

A stunt pilot intends to thrill the audience without regard to risk

What arrant nonsense.

Moggy

My 1st ever visit to Duxford saw Stefan arrive in Moose, best arrival I’ve ever seen. Still think Moose was the best looking P-51

Seams to be quite a common mistake, this is from Swedish Television in 1987.
]

“Seams” there are philistine in Sweden too… You line em up, I’ll knock em in!

There is some info on Stefan and his flying career here: –

http://www.rowlandwhite.com/portfolio-view/stefan-karwowski-sharpshooter/

(I think this might have been linked on a previous thread when his name came up).

Cheers

Paul

I was always amazed that owners allowed Karwowski to fly their aeroplanes. He was essentially a stunt pilot not a display pilot and it came as no surprise at all that he died in an accident. Just one risk too many.

Regards

Interesting! Personally I always enjoyed Stefans displays especially in the Bearcat, for which I understand he had a great fondest and had hoped to one day own his own example.

And I always understood that the cause of his tragic death was the aircraft letting him down – not his flying ability!?

Rob