Stirling Loss 21/11/44

Hi Dick

I’ve sent you a Private Message

cheers

John

LK276 crew memorials

I was responsible for the instigating the crew memorial fund.
I’m happy to answer any queries.

I am the person who carried out the research for Merna Kidgell’s book that I co-wrote.
I have the original draft of the book on my computer if anybody wants a copy foc just ask.

Hi All,

Has anyone come a crossed the Book about The Seven Airmen of Stirling LK276 ???

I found a copy a few weeks ago in Great Dunmow, I think it a local book as it’s on A4 paper

Cheers
Daz

I now know where they all are.

Flying Officer Ernest Douglas Woods aged 26
Here http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=51.872299&lon=0.351789&z=16&r=0&src=msa

Sergeant Hugh Holt aged 20
Here http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=51.872103&lon=0.35479&z=17.7&r=0&src=msa

Flight Sergeant Reginald Matthew Dauncey aged 23
Here http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=51.873554&lon=0.353458&z=17&r=0&src=msa

Flight Sergeant Arthur George Reid aged 33
and Flight Sergeant Ronald David Payne aged 21. Both are in the playground of Great Dunmow Primary School so permission is required to view them.
Here http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=51.872904&lon=0.349817&z=18.8&r=0&src=msa

Flying Officer William Walter D’Arcy Brain aged 26
Here http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=51.875749&lon=0.348506&z=19.2&r=0&src=msa

Flying Officer James Ian Kidgell aged 23
Here http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=51.875606&lon=0.347871&z=19.2&r=0&src=msa

Here is a link to a thread on The Airfield Information Exchange Forum which may be helpful.
http://www.airfieldinformationexchange.org/community/showthread.php?6400-Short-Stirling-LK276-Great-Dunmow/page2

Sgt Hugh Holt

We have been contacted by a relative of the above who rightly inform us the incorrect age inscribed on the bench plaque. Sgt Holt was in fact 20 and not 33.
They have contacted the local council in order to have it changed.
Perhaps Julian you would like to contact us and we will put you in touch if you so wish?
Kelvin
http://aircrewremembrancesociety.com/

Hmmm – interesting contradictions here…

Hi chaps,

I really must visit this forum more often. I was at the official unveiling of the last three benches and was made to feel very welcome by Great Dunmow (including an excellent lunch in the Italian Restaurant, and a great pint of London Pride in the Boar’s Head), and a great reception later on.

As said earlier I am the Grandson of F/O Woods and was present at the ceremony with his two daughters (one is my mum the other my aunt).

The book you refer to: Bowyer’s ” The Stirling Story “, was published I believe just before Merna Kidgell published her comprehensive findings about the events of that night.

There is also an account in, ‘Stirlings in action with the airborne forces’ published more recently which confirm’s Mrs Kidgell’s findings.

Until Mrs Kidgell underwent her comprehensive research, the story was that the aircraft crashed due to pilot error AFTER releasing the glider, possible misreading of the altimeter as the runway lights went out. All on board were killed.

Mrs Kidgell’s research indicates that there were indeed TWO aircraft around that night, I spoke to a witness while in Great Dunmow who confirmed this. As LK276 was instructed to circle around it was shot by a nightfighter, and subsequently crashed. This is now the accepted turn of events on that night.

Moggy thank you for your comments, you are indeed correct that this is how errors happen BUT all the evidence from numerous witnesses (including some I spoke to myself while in Great Dunmow) spoken to by Mrs Kidgell do point beyond doubt to the fact that there was indeed an intruder that fired on LK276.

wells, the horsa they had been towing landed safely some minutes earlier.

I suspect that the good people of Great Dunmow will be able to point you in the direction of the document that exists I think at the library.

The families have fought for a long time for the commorative benches, and the process has been rigorous!

The Grandson of F/O Woods

Hmm, perhaps the “intruder” that was following the Stirling was a Horsa….

In the total absence of any evidence I worry that a plaque with a fictional cause of loss has been mounted on a commemorative bench.

This is how errors happen. Over the years to come the plaque will be used as evidence of a combat that it would appear never actually occurred.

Moggy

The individual aircraft histories are in Bowyer’s ” The Stirling Story “,

LK276 was a Mk. IV built by Short and Harland in Belfast. This aircraft was coded ‘Y’ in 190 squadron from Sep 28, 1944. The accident ( cat EFA, write off as a result of flying accident during non-operational flying ) occurred at 2120 hrs on Nov 21, 1944. The Luftwaffe wouldn’t have been able to make a claim if they didn’t return to base. Were there any RAF claims from that night?

stirling crash bench ceremony date

hi i am a lifelong Dunmow resident living in waldgrooms the next estate down from newton green. I found out about this crash last week when printing the local church monthly phamphlet ” outlook”.
In it was a small paragraph titled “stirling anniversary”.This stated the date,place,and the fact that seven crew members died who were then buried in various places around the world. Intrigued about the story i did a web search and found this thread.

The section also went on to mention the benches. Seven in all, the last three of which will be dedicated to the airmen at ceremonies beginning at 2.00pm on sunday 21st November 2010. It also mentions that the daughter of one of the airmen will be attending. The benches will be situated at Newton green,thredders green, and Stortford road. Further details may be gathered i assume from the vicar of st. Mary’s church Rev david Ainge.

I am also trying to get a copy of the book about this crash, so far i have only found it in a library in Australia!!

I hope this has been of some interset to someone out there.
kind regards ian

We would like to hear more about the research that Cecil’s wife has undertaken and we will update the article accordingly. Perhaps you may like to contact me off list?
Yes, this forum is terrific and with so many people who do care and want to remember thee chaps.
Kelvin
http://www.aircrewremembrancesociety…4/kidgell.html

Hello Everyone

I’m F/O Douglas Woods’ daughter ( his younger daughter, born two months after his death.) My sister and I grew up knowing very little about the crash, but just that it happened and that the blame fell on the pilot. Although it is true that the crew gave their lives in the service of their country, it was hard for the families to come to terms with what seemed to be such a waste – that the aircraft crashed when it was almost ‘home’. It was particularly devastating for the pilot’s ( Ian Kidgell’s) family, and for his twin brother, Cecil, who knew Ian to be a skilled pilot and a responsible young man.
We were all heartened therefore, when Merna Kidgell ( Cecil’s wife) took up the story in the mid 1990’s. Her meticulous reseach revealed that the aircraft was shot down by an intruder, and that this was well known amongst the rest of the squadron, but that it was kept quiet at the time, since it was felt that it would not be good for British morale to know that there were intruders lurking in the night skies. Merna contacted all the families of the 7 crew, and her book is inspirational. Even 50 years after the crash, she still found actual eye-witnesses.
We ( my sister and I ) visited Great Dunmow a couple of years ago, and saw the memorial to the squadron at Eastern Lodge, but could find no sign of the promised benches. So we were delighted to find this blog, and to know that the benches now exist, and to hear that other people know about the crash and that there are still people like Harry’s Dad, and all of you – who want to say thank you to these 7 airman and thousands of others like them who made the ultimate sacrifice so that we might live in peace.
Doug was 26 when he died. It is his birthday tomorrow – 31 May – he would be 92. He has a family – 2 daughters, 2 grandsons, and now 3 great grandchildren whom he never knew, but we keep his spirit alive, and it’s great to know that there are others out there who appreciate him too.
Thank you everyone !

Hi Julian

I live in Great Dunmow and have been intrigued by the story of your grandfather’s aircraft for several years.

Having looked yesterday, I can confirm that the bench bearing your grandfather’s name is situated in Stortford Road, Great Dunmow, in front of the council houses just to the east of Great Dunmow Primary School. It stands beside a footpath that is separated from the B1256 road by bushes and a small field, so if you want to have a look it would be best to park in the layby on the B1256 in front of the School and follow the path eastwards towards the town. After a couple of hundred metres you will see the bench on your left.

Regards

mozzieman

Hi guys,

Thanks for those links much appreciated! Who knows the picture of the Stirling taking off from Great Dunmow could be them…

My family are trying to get together as much information as we can about LK276 and its crew, at the moment there are bits and pieces scattered across the world.

My Aunt (Doug’s eldest daughter) has tried to contact Great Dunmow parish council about the location of the benches, so we wait to hear the outcome of that. There is also apparently some stuff in the house near where the aerodrome was, but I think I need to visit!

In the meantime there are other plans afoot.

Be great to know where the bench is though – the chap who started the thread hasn’t yet got back to me.

Regards

Julian

Be happy to assist you to enable you to find it or at least put you in contact with the chap who supplied us with the photo Julian.
Any other information that you care to supply us with would be welcomed.
Kelvin
http://www.aircrewremembrancesociety.com/welcome.html

Small pic of bench here but no location.

http://www.aircrewremembrancesociety.com/raf1944/kidgell.html

Grandson of F/O Woods

Hi Harry’s Dad,

I think I might be able to answer some of your questions…

I am the Grandson of F/O Douglas Woods, there has been a lot of interest in the night that they were shot down in recent years, and what is remarkable is that coincidences keep happening, I won’t go into them here, but they are pretty frequent.

Merna Kidgell before she died did a huge amount of research and there is a book that she wrote that goes into the characters of the airmen and the events of the night in question. The general feeling is that they were shot down by a night fighter.

I don’t want to write too much here, but I would really like to know where the bench is. F/O Woods’ two daughters (my mum and her older sister) both donated money to the bench, but haven’t managed to find it.

Please could you let me know where it is so we can visit? I understand that this is an old post however…

There is lots we don’t know about what missions he flew on as 190 squadron was involved in Arnhem and SOE drops. Sadly a great deal of awesome correspondance was lost in the mists of time…

Okay it would be great to hear from you about the location of the bench!

Regards

Julian Whitehead
Grandson of F/O Woods

Harry’s Dad.

I would be most interested if you could give me the exact location of the bench and when you first noticed it was there. Perhaps, just perhaps, there might be a small piece about its placement and dedication in the local press and would also be grateful if you could tell me which local newspapers cover the area.

Icare9.

Thanks for that. It might be worth looking at the local press for Sheffield as well, both for the period of the aircraft’s loss and more recently regarding requests for information on Ernest Woods.

I’m emailing DoRIS at Hendon for the accident card and also for any other information which might help.

Personally, if this was just a simple accident in which the pilot was not monitoring his height, why was the check or instructor pilot not admonished as well? And another thought. The aircraft was seen to be being followed by another aircraft. Might this not have been the Horsa he was towing before release?

As always, we end up asking more questions than we can ever answer.

regards,

kev35

From the CWGC:
Name: WOODS, ERNEST DOUGLAS
Initials: E D
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Flying Officer (Nav.)
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
Unit Text: 190 Sqdn.
Age: 26
Date of Death: 21/11/1944
Service No: 176742
Additional information: Son of Ernest George and Eliza Woods; husband of Marjorie Evelyn Woods, of Chapeltown, Sheffield.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Sec. Q. Grave 66.
Cemetery: CHAPELTOWN (OR BURNCROSS) CEMETERY
Do you know who paid for this bench? It seems such a nice way to remember someone, there must be a background story worth revealing.