Stolen Poppy Tins (merged)

‘In the scheme of things’ I was talking about crimes much, much more damaging than having your wallet lifted (unless, as I said earlier you’re attacked in the process). I guess our idea of the scheme of things is somewhat different.

Paul

I knew what you meant. I was indicating a personal affect on you.
I only worry about the crime that is likely to directly affect or disturb me. Muggers, robbers, twockers etc. If my local bank is held up, I would only be worried if I’m in the crossfire. If it was a big hold-up I’ll look forward to the movie.
Seemple.

Just to throw my hat into the ring…I donated 50p to the Poppy Appeal this year.

Ok, so some may think that that is a relatively small amount of money, however, it was all the ‘silver’ change I had on me at the time I got my poppy.

Also, if you consider for a moment that in previous years I only ever put 20p into the tins as I used to think “Its only a poppy!”, however this year I felt that it was for a more deserving cause because of the current events in Afghanistan and the upper most respect that I have for the people that are out there giving their lives to help save/protect ours…remember, its not just about the people that fought for us in the previous World Wars, its all about everyone that has, and are currently, serving their country!

As for the stealing of the poppy-tins…its a despicable crime, and is important that it is brought to the attention of people because if I had put my 50p donation into a tin that was subsequently stolen, I would be most upset as it would not be going to the cause that I had intended it to go to…if I had wanted to give my 50p to some scumbag low-life I would have done so directly, but I didn’t and wouldn’t as they do not deserve it.

Lets hope these people are caught and then made to pay back the money they stole (with interest!) and then they should be made to do some sort of service, such as giving money over to family, friends and relatives of those people that have lost someone as a result of a death on the battlefield!

But surely that need not preclude comment on the fact that the situation exists.

Absolutely not, but as with so many things, just how ‘low’ this crime is will occur to everybody except the person (or persons) responsible.

The fact that “we can get away with it as no one cares or the police haven’t got the time” seems to me symptomatic of what is wrong about the UK these days.

But if ‘they think they can get away with it’ the fact that only a dozen or so collection-boxes were taken is a good thing isn’t it?

And as for it being symptomatic of what is wrong with the country maybe it’s a symptom of something that’s right! 🙂

In the scheme of things, such crimes are important because they disturb the feelings of decent people in as much as having ones wallet lifted.

‘In the scheme of things’ I was talking about crimes much, much more damaging than having your wallet lifted (unless, as I said earlier you’re attacked in the process). I guess our idea of the scheme of things is somewhat different.

Paul

But was there ever a ‘golden era’ when this sort of crime didn’t happen?

I’m not condoning it but the theft of a dozen poppy-appeal collection-boxes is surely going to be way down on anybody’s priority list; as a comparison 200,000 cars were reported stolen in the UK in 2005.

And if they are caught how can they be punished (birching aside)? The courts have already been instructed not to bother prosecuting much more serious offences on grounds of costs.

[B][I]The prisons are full and this forum is well-known for its ‘life should mean life’ stance so where does that leave us?

[/I][/B]

Impotent. But surely that need not preclude comment on the fact that the situation exists. The fact that “we can get away with it as no one cares or the police haven’t got the time” seems to me symptomatic of what is wrong about the UK these days. Few people have any sense of individual or shared responsibility for their actions.. We are all beholden to the state to manage every aspect of our lives, so that people now grow up without the “old, traditional values”.

In cold mathematical/statistical terms I see and totally agree your point.
The underlying time bomb is that such crimes are a barometer of “Feck it, they won’t even put me inside” attitude which is rife.
It’s probably 3 generations deep now, there is no hope for the growing Pikey Chav scumbag class. They learn it from Parents who were schooled by their parents – no moral standing or respect whatsoever. In the scheme of things, such crimes are important because they disturb the feelings of decent people in as much as having ones wallet lifted.

But was there ever a ‘golden era’ when this sort of crime didn’t happen?

I’m not condoning it but the theft of a dozen poppy-appeal collection-boxes is surely going to be way down on anybody’s priority list; as a comparison 200,000 cars were reported stolen in the UK in 2005.

And if they are caught how can they be punished (birching aside)? The courts have already been instructed not to bother prosecuting much more serious offences on grounds of costs.

The prisons are full and this forum is well-known for its ‘life should mean life’ stance so where does that leave us?

If everyone shared the same opinions, there wouldn’t be a debate.

Can’t argue with that.

Nicely put, Old Shape. Exactly my feelings, but clearly not shared by some in this debate.

If everyone shared the same opinions, there wouldn’t be a debate.

In cold mathematical/statistical terms I see and totally agree your point.
[B][I]The underlying time bomb is that such crimes are a barometer of “Feck it, they won’t even put me inside” attitude which is rife.
It’s probably 3 generations deep now, there is no hope for the growing Pikey Chav scumbag class. They learn it from Parents who were schooled by their parents – no moral standing or respect whatsoever. In the scheme of things, such crimes are important because they disturb the feelings of decent people in as much as having ones wallet lifted.

[/I][/B]

Nicely put, Old Shape. Exactly my feelings, but clearly not shared by some in this debate.

Old Shape, there’s no point whatsoever throwing various scenarios at me because that isn’t what we’re talking about here; we’re talking about a collection tin being stolen, which is what I’m expressing an opinion on. Nothing more, nothing less. Again, I agree fully the people who stole it are total low life cretins and I said that in my original post.

Sky High, I have no idea whatsoever why you’re having such difficulty understanding my point, and it actually worries me that your attitude would seem to indicate you consider stealing a collection tin containing 20 quid to be as bad a crime as someone getting stabbed for the sake of their wallet, which may contain absolutely nothing. Stealing is a crime however you look at it, but I have no idea how you can imply all incidents of theft should be looked at in the same way. That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Paul

In cold mathematical/statistical terms I see and totally agree your point.
The underlying time bomb is that such crimes are a barometer of “Feck it, they won’t even put me inside” attitude which is rife.
It’s probably 3 generations deep now, there is no hope for the growing Pikey Chav scumbag class. They learn it from Parents who were schooled by their parents – no moral standing or respect whatsoever. In the scheme of things, such crimes are important because they disturb the feelings of decent people in as much as having ones wallet lifted.

I don’t think anyone suggested it was, did they? It was “just a crime” that’s all!:confused:

Let me make my position clear.

Yes, all thefts of poppy-appeal collection-boxes are crimes, and those responsible should be ashamed of themselves. I do not condone them in any way whatsoever, it is not something I have done, nor would I ever do so but…

…these crimes must be seen in the proper perspective.

That was the reason for my sarcastic (:rolleyes:) ‘hardly the disintegration of civilised society’ comment.

There is a worrying trend here from some posters. Perhaps it’s age but I was brought up to understand that stealing is stealing and the circumstances are irrelevant. Perhaps this cavalier attitude that some have expressed here is a symptom of the age in which we now live. I find it rather depressing but perhaps unsurprising.:(

So what exactly are you proposing be done about this situation that ‘some posters’ are being cavalier about?

I’m not just arguing for the sake of it here, I’m genuinely interested in how you would go about it, what resources you would allocate, how much money you would be prepared to spend and how this money would be raised from the taxpayer?

Would you propose educating the population in general, and those responsible for these crimes in particular, to show them the error of their ways and hope to prevent this crime ever occurring?

Would you improve security of the collection-boxes themselves to deter crime? What would this cost?

Would you allocate police resources to track-down those responsible for these crimes, arrest them, charge them with theft and bring them to court? How much would that cost? Would they get legal aid?

What punishment do you think would be appropriate (apart from the slow birching already suggested)? Would they go to prison? What would that cost?

Moderator Message

We don’t need two threads about stolen poppy collections tins running at the same time.

Cheers

GA

Why is it a ‘cop out’? I’m not defending the actions of these people; they should be ashamed of themselves.

All I’m saying is, that of the sixty-odd million people in Britain, so far we have five people implicated in grand-theft poppy-tin (if you count the kid in the push-chair)…

...it’s hardly the disintegration of civilised society is it? :rolleyes:

I don’t think anyone suggested it was, did they? It was “just a crime” that’s all!:confused:

No sense to you Paul, but every sense to me, so we will have to agree to differ, as we are clearly unlikely to find any common ground.

I think that’s the best plan.

Paul

Old Shape, there’s no point whatsoever throwing various scenarios at me because that isn’t what we’re talking about here; we’re talking about a collection tin being stolen, which is what I’m expressing an opinion on. Nothing more, nothing less. Again, I agree fully the people who stole it are total low life cretins and I said that in my original post.

Sky High, I have no idea whatsoever why you’re having such difficulty understanding my point, and it actually worries me that your attitude would seem to indicate you consider stealing a collection tin containing 20 quid to be as bad a crime as someone getting stabbed for the sake of their wallet, which may contain absolutely nothing. Stealing is a crime however you look at it, but I have no idea how you can imply all incidents of theft should be looked at in the same way. That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Paul

No sense to you Paul, but every sense to me, so we will have to agree to differ, as we are clearly unlikely to find any common ground.

Old Shape, there’s no point whatsoever throwing various scenarios at me because that isn’t what we’re talking about here; we’re talking about a collection tin being stolen, which is what I’m expressing an opinion on. Nothing more, nothing less. Again, I agree fully the people who stole it are total low life cretins and I said that in my original post.

Sky High, I have no idea whatsoever why you’re having such difficulty understanding my point, and it actually worries me that your attitude would seem to indicate you consider stealing a collection tin containing 20 quid to be as bad a crime as someone getting stabbed for the sake of their wallet, which may contain absolutely nothing. Stealing is a crime however you look at it, but I have no idea how you can imply all incidents of theft should be looked at in the same way. That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Paul

There is a worrying trend here from some posters. Perhaps it’s age but I was brought up to understand that stealing is stealing and the circumstances are irrelevant. Perhaps this cavalier attitude that some have expressed here is a symptom of the age in which we now live. I find it rather depressing but perhaps unsurprising.:(

Why is it a ‘cop out’? I’m not defending the actions of these people; they should be ashamed of themselves.

All I’m saying is, that of the sixty-odd million people in Britain, so far we have five people implicated in grand-theft poppy-tin (if you count the kid in the push-chair)…

…it’s hardly the disintegration of civilised society is it? :rolleyes:

Let’s look on the bright-side shall we…..the poppy appeal will raise millions and so far only two collections have been stolen…
…I’d say that shows an almost incredible level of respect from the population as a whole. 🙂

No, that’s a cop out. Even to the most optimistic of optimists.
Birch the basads to within an inch of their lives. Slowly.

Paul,
I feel a nybyism creeping in here.

What if you were collecting for (Say) a cancer trust and left the can in a shop and it was nicked.
Would you not feel this was a crime against you? I would.

And, the fact that somebody could stoop so low as to lift a poppy tin is enough to get wound up enough anyway. With such morals then surely in their head, anything goes. Disrespectful wastes of skin and air. Parents should be ashamed…but it was they that probably trained them.

Personal line drawing on opinions of crime always draws debate. For example: –
(a) Pinching a £10 from the desk of a workmate vs
(b) Keeping a £10 note that was spat out by a cash machine by mistake (As has actually happened).

I would never even consider (a) but I’m pretty sure I’d keep the £10 in (b). But theft is theft in the eyes of the law.