Stormshadow where is the evidence?

So the missile with a 250+ km range gets its range limited to 300km for export to certain countries.

Now that’s a + 😀

Well, as I previously said, there are different ways of counting range. I believe the 250+ km figure is range from launch to target, assuming a roundabout route, avoiding known defences & even if detected, concealing the true target area for as long as possible. The distance flown would be much more. The 400km given in the French Senat report may be the straight line distance. Or it may be even more.

Taurus Systems GMBH says that the KEPD 350 (350 from the originally stated range to target in km) has a straight line range of over 500km.

So the missile with a 250+ km range gets its range limited to 300km for export to certain countries.

Now that’s a + 😀

Different class of weapon. However you interpret it, Patriot can’t be in breach of the MTCR, nor can it easily be classified as an offensive weapon. Storm Shadow, however . . .

The customer. You don’t sell everything to everyone, & one has to think about MTCR.

Note that the USA flatly refused to sell the UAE a cruise missile, & banned LM from integrating SCALP – or even Black Shahine – on F-16E, officially because it had too long a range.

Hmm, i’d consider the UAE fairly trustworthy. Weren’t the US going to sell it Patriots?

The customer. You don’t sell everything to everyone, & one has to think about MTCR.

Note that the USA flatly refused to sell the UAE a cruise missile, & banned LM from integrating SCALP – or even Black Shahine – on F-16E, officially because it had too long a range.

I’ve seen reports that it’s range-limited to keep it below 300km.

What would be the point in that?

I’ve seen reports that it’s range-limited to keep it below 300km.

Can someone tell me the differences between the Scalp/EG and the Black Shaheen?

Nic

English version? I thought the only difference was the name?

Name and some minor electronic. All performance specs are the same. And sorry, the french senate don’t really have a reason to do a english version of these rapports (and I don’t have enought time to do a integral translation), you need to use a automatic translator (or if you want a translation of a small part, copy the part and I will translate).

@+, Arka

English version? I thought the only difference was the name?

They’re identical except for the interface to the aircraft, which is different.

There are different ways of calculating range: straight-line distance to target, or distance flown. Storm Shadow (like other, similar missiles, such as Taurus KEPD-350) usually flies an indirect route.

I’d hope they get something for those extra 600 lbs.

A missile which hit 26 out of 27 targets in real live warfare, almost 7 years ago. I believe that JASSM has yet to demonstrate that level of reliability in a more benign environment, & until the re-manufacturing of older missiles is complete, at least 2 will have to be fired to even get close to it. That gives Storm Shadow an immense weight advantage. :diablo:

It is. No idea where 400kms came from? New EU Kms?

Well the French Senate says 400km and we say officially say 250km+, which is right? Maybe both?

I’d hope they get something for those extra 600 lbs.

Well, apart from the ability to hit targets, which is pretty important, the weight difference isn’t all that important. Though Storm Shadow is a bit heavier, it is well within the carrying capacity of pretty much any of the jets likely to carry it. Basically, the Storm Shadow range was deliberately low-balled, as most western sources do with kit. Heck, the Hellfire was originally quoted as something like 3km range in the media, but was actually a lot greater once the true range figures came out.

As for the mention of the JASSM-ER, it does have a lot of potential, but at the same time, a lot to live up to. Given its genesis, I would be concerned about its ability to live up to the promises. I would also mention the Scalp Naval missile, which is a very long range derivative of the Scalp/Storm Shadow, albeit one intended for ship and sub launch. It may well be possible to re-adapt the Scalp Naval for air launch, as a direct equivalent of the JASSM-ER.

English version? I thought the only difference was the name?

It is. No idea where 400kms came from? New EU Kms?

As far as I understand 250km is not far under the range for Stormshadow, I guess the extra weight is kit to make sure it actually hits the target and is reliable. JASSM might be lighter and go 100km further but it won’t if it don’t work…..

The Storm Shadow actual maximum range is vastly superior to 250 km´s…

I’d hope they get something for those extra 600 lbs.

The SCALP-EG (french Storm Shadow) is given for 400km (source : french senate*).

I doubt than the English version cannot go to 400km either.

@+, Arka

*http://www.senat.fr/rap/a98-0697/a98-069710.html

English version? I thought the only difference was the name?

IIRC there were reports of something like 24 being fired, with 23 successes.

It was 27 shots, with 26 direct hits.

______________Storm Shadow_______________JASSM
Weight:_________2866 lbs_________________2250 lbs
Range:__________250+ km_________________370+ km (ER 930+ km)
Payload:_________450kg___________________450kg

Any questions?

The Storm Shadow actual maximum range is vastly superior to 250 km´s…

______________Storm Shadow_______________JASSM
Weight:_________2866 lbs_________________2250 lbs
Range:__________250+ km_________________370+ km (ER 930+ km)
Payload:_________450kg___________________450kg

Any questions?

The SCALP-EG (french Storm Shadow) is given for 400km (source : french senate*).

I doubt than the English version cannot go to 400km either.

@+, Arka

*http://www.senat.fr/rap/a98-0697/a98-069710.html