SU-26 Low pass under Bridge

Ok Guys,

This till does’nt answer my firt question, Chris Danny did’nt misjudge his hieght he caught a Micro-shear at the bottom of the loop and for the record he had about 50 feet of clearance more then the Su. pilot did.

Here in the States if you fly Acro in a Warbird you must have a Low Leavel Waiver and get a ACE ride every six months.

As for the Female pilot getting killed in a Dusk Ribbon cut I’ll check with ICAS and get back to you.

I still don’t see why peolpe are not hopping mad over this IDIOTS stunt Hell he was flying right at the crowd what would have happen if he took a Hick-Up and touch water. I’ll tell you a lot of people would have been either hurt of killed. Like I said this would never fly here in the States, but I quess the EU lets you do anything stupid.

I (almost) don’t know where to begin, but don’t worry, I’ll try…

1. “Caught a micro-shear (whatever that’s supposed to be) at the bottom of a loop”. Why don’t we just say pilot error. Period. If the airplane hits the ground (or goes lower than the pilot intended) it’s pilot error, unless of course you’re suggesting a mechanical problem caused this. Caught a micro-shear is a Bullsh*t answer, and any pilot who has ever flown acro knows it. What sort of micro-shear is it supposed to be? Wake turbulence? A Thunderstorm in the area, perhaps? Give me a break.

2. You do not need any special license or card to perform acro in a warbird in the US. If you want to fly acro in waivered airspace, you do need an aerobatic competency card, which is issued by an ACE (Aerobatic Competency Evaluator), or a Warbird ACE from EAA. BTW, recurrency is every year, not six months.

3. As for your last comments, well I think it was a stupid stunt given the proximity of the crowd and the circular approach he had to take on the bridge. But you loose all credibility with your “Wouldn’t happen here in the good ‘ole US of A (insert sound of popping cap and chugging a brewski).

Now, before you attack me, let me make a few last comments.

1. I know you’re passionate about warbirds, but in following your threads for the last several months you tend to get many facts wrong, maybe in a rush to post (it also doesn’t do your spelling any favors). The problem is that you do tend to bill yourself as something of an expert, so I would advise caution and a review of your facts. And…

2. Lighten up, dude! This wrapping yourself in the flag thing is getting old. I’m as patriotic as the next Yank (although my family wore grey and we call it the War between the States), but you just can’t go around bashing an entire continent, country, or region because someone did something bonehead. And then to make a statement like “well, that would never happen here” just goes to show how little you know. We both know that stuff EXACTLY like this has happened here. Not without repercussions, but it has happened.

So, slow down, take a breath, and quit poking the foreigners.

Steve Patterson

If moderators exist (which I doubt – I put them in the same category as UFOs), can they move inappropriate threads into other Fori?
Of course the all-powerful Webmaster could – he/she is omnipotent!

Why is this here?

So were(sic) are all the calls for these two IDOITS(sic) to be ground(sic) like evryone(sic) was when Danny McQue got low with his Yak Demo.

Personally, I think its is because this is the HISTORIC forum, not an Aerobatic forum so, although we do care about various aircraft, we tend to only get vocally emotional about Warbirds.

Quite frankly, if you think that people have defamed you friend, then it would probably be far better for him if your were not to keep mentioning it!

* Below. Yes, tail fin in the water.

but I quess the EU lets you do anything stupid.

Rob, that’s an un-informed, irrelevant and inapropriate comment. It also has nothing to do with the case. Let’s not get into which states / unions let their citizens do things which are stupid.

Incidentally, flying inverted below* sea level has a long history, and goes back to pre-W.W.II with Monaco harbour in the 1930s being a prime example. Check your aerobatic history books.

I am not interested in commenting on these cases above. However, margins of error (safety and recovery) are removed when spectators are close and the ground is close. Shortening those factors is not a good idea generally.

Not a pilot, not an inspector, but an aviation advocate…

No female was killed that I know of doing a ribbon cut. I think you are all thinking of Joanne Osterud’s accident in Arizona at Yuma in 1997 in the twilight, she did do ribbon cuts and was doing one when she hit the ground because of the low visibility. The plane was pretty much a write off and she was ok. Her career was finished though, she has yet to return to airshow flying, but probably still is an airline pilot.

JH

So, how come certain people were allowed to fly certain spitfires under bridges for BBC TV serials ?

but I quess the EU lets you do anything stupid.

Whilst the EU is responsible for a lot of stupid things Lithuania was not, ast the time, in Europe.

MH

Ok Guys,

This till does’nt answer my firt question, Chris Danny did’nt misjudge his hieght he caught a Micro-shear at the bottom of the loop and for the record he had about 50 feet of clearance more then the Su. pilot did.

Here in the States if you fly Acro in a Warbird you must have a Low Leavel Waiver and get a ACE ride every six months.

As for the Female pilot getting killed in a Dusk Ribbon cut I’ll check with ICAS and get back to you.

I still don’t see why peolpe are not hopping mad over this IDIOTS stunt Hell he was flying right at the crowd what would have happen if he took a Hick-Up and touch water. I’ll tell you a lot of people would have been either hurt of killed. Like I said this would never fly here in the States, but I quess the EU lets you do anything stupid.

The flight on that clip was in 2001 ? the first ever inverted under-bridge flight in Kaunas, Lithuania. In 2000, he had performed a Special Millennium flight under all 10 Bridges in Vilnius, also in Lithuania. I agree that these under-bridge flights were irresponsible, especially when spectators were allowed on the bridge as well, and wouldn?t be permitted in the UK. Though different countries have varying views on safety standards.

This flight was not some spur-of-the-moment stunt, although he was fined afterwards ? for displaying cigarette advertising. The relevant aviation authorities presumably permitted these under bridge flights (though I stand corrected if they did not). The large numbers of spectators showed it was well publicised beforehand.

Jurgis Kairys has a website, which it is worth having a look at for other more traditional display flying clips:

http://www.jkairys.com/english/index.htm

However, this does raise an interesting question of what is, or should be, permissible. My understanding is that a display pilot has to demonstrate to an examiner what (s)he plans to do, so that safety and competence can be assessed before a Display Authorisation is issued. This will include a minimum height at which the pilot is allowed to display. The venue will also have a minimum distance of the display axis from the crowd line to protect the spectators in the event of a mishap.

Classic warbirds such as a Spitfire or Mustang have a completely different flight envelope from the modern unlimited class aerobatic aircraft, which sometimes seem to defy the basic laws of flight because of their power to weight ratios and the gyroscopic effects generated by their engine and propeller. The two types of aircraft require different energy management, have different G limits and are consequently displayed differently.

Aerobatic display pilots can, and do, get DAs to do flick rolls after take off, to perform a loop ? putting the undercarriage ?down? at the top of the loop and landing from the manoeuvre (Gennady Elfimov). The ?barnstorming? displays of limbo flying and ribbon cutting are also flown low down and with support crew holding the poles ? and are permitted and considered safe to perform. And to see a Tiger Moth doing a crazy flying routine, one wonders how it does not stall and spin in.

I don?t know how low inverted flight would be allowed. Perhaps someone on the board has more knowledge of this.

Manoeuvres, which would horrify me if flown by a Spitfire, for example, wouldn?t trouble me if flown by a Sukhoi 26 or an Extra 300. Of course, it is possible to screw up, have a mechanical or structural failure and pay the ultimate price, whatever type of aircraft you fly.

For another ?stunt?, look at the Haute Voltige web site:

www.haute-voltige.com

… and check out the Movies link. There are three clips of an aircraft flying through the Tianmen Cave. Crazy? It got in the Guinness Book of records, apparently.

We?ve had lots of debate about warbird displays after the tragic losses of the past few years ? with differing views about how low or hard they should be flown. But what do people think is permissible, while being as safe as anything can be in a display environment?

YR

these types of Stunts would never fly here in the States or in the UK.

Wasn’t a female aerobatic pilot killed recently in the states doing an inverted ribbon cut, at night?

Neal

Err… The Sukhoi SU26 is designed to take highly stressful manouvers and is one of the most accurate high performance aerobatic aircraft in the world. I think you’ll find that the Yak-3 is not such an aircraft. I personally didn’t call for said pilot to be grounded, but was a little concerned. The flying you see with these aerobatic types are well within their limits. However, i do believe such stunts like the bridge are now forbidden in countries like Lithuania. Although impressive, they are dangerous.

It seemed Danny McQue got low in his Yak demo because of a miscalculation in his base height. He was lucky to have pulled out of it. But these pilots are not doing these manouvers by accident, remember that. They are also performing them in capable highly stressed airframes not second world war fighter aeroplanes. Sorry, that is the difference i’m afraid.

Just my 2p, expecting some teddies now…

OK Guys,

So were are all the calls for these two IDOITS to be ground like evryone was when Danny McQue got low with his Yak Demo.

I really don’t care if these guys are that good its just plain stupid, but that goes to show you that you can get away with crap like that in Japan these types of Stunts would never fly here in the States or in the UK.

Here’s another pic of his low flying. Awesome stuff.

Checkout this link to see what happens when someone gets it wrong low down. The pilot, Alexander Krotov survived.

http://forums.avi8.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000076

Now give me warbirds over aerobatics any day, but this guy just wiped the floor with every one at Warbirds over Wanaka. You just couldn’t keep your eyes off him because he was just so totally unpredictable. Nothing like your average aerobatics – very new manoevres only possible because he had modified his Sukoi himself.

He’s a Lithuanian aerobatic champion, now based in Japan.

I’ll come back to the where and when question later, if someone doesn’t beat me to it.

I’m not sure – but it looks to be the style of Jurgis Kairys, from Lithuania.