Sub issues distress call: breaking news

I see, then that would explain the low IQ of the average american population. In our country, you can ask anyone, they’ll all know the Americans and Brits were there. But again, unfortunately they always seem to forget the Russians (with 22million dead, the worst hit country). I suppose that was because it goes a bit further than our own country. The Russians weren’t here, yet they did distract and weaken Germany enough to make the landing possible.
Anyway, your post is not taken as an offense at all,and I’m glad you agree in some way with us.
As for the Normal things they make sound bad, a good example is the elections, just because Putin had so much support, they started yelling already about fraude and corruption and falseness. Typical, but I do believe he has such support (there aren’t too many alternatives anyway). Anyhow, why do they do that? Because Bush or Kerry doesn’t have such support, that doesn’t automatically mean that other countries can’t have this unity.

Anyway, for Blackcat, you don’t have to be that upset about this. Russian broadcasting studios are also very nationalistic and the Russian people themselves too. This nationalism is turning into Ultra-nationalism and racism in more and more cases, this is a great danger and fear of me, since it might cut them off of the rest of the world or at least make the ties worse.

About the subs, it’s always a pitty, but I’m glad the two other guys are in good condition. Fires onboard submarines are always a nasty thing to have, in a normal surface ship it’s bad enough. Now that third dimention must be horrible.

I’m sorry to say Phil, but the man’s right…
Of course I don’t see the point of noting this in this thread, but he’s quite right about the Kursk reporting. They always do that when something happens in Russia:
Something good happens: They stay all quiet about it
Something normal happens: They make it sound bad
Something bad happens: They declare it a disaster and start flaming at Russia
Finally, they have started changing a slight bit in the West. Although not much.

Chap I know really I do and possibly more than you think. For example in popular American history it is not only the Soviet Union that was written out of WW2, Britain was as well. I must stress that I mean ‘popular’ history not ‘real’ history because the real American historians are as good as any but the average bloke in the street knows little about WW2 except their own countrys role in it, which it has to be said was just as, if not more important than anybody elses. They know nothing and care less about the Battle of Britain. They think it was a part of some civil war that happened centuries ago or they think they won it for us. They know even less about the Russian front and if you mention the Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, South Africans, Brazilians, Indians andon andon ad infinitum they will give you a confused and obviously blank expression. So I am right there with you sir, all the way. 🙂

RE: Blackcat

“the Mir lost their entire power trying to dock as that damn currents was at the heaviest odds when the Russians went down”

Never heard that. Is there some link focusing this? i would like to know more about that.

You really are a bitter and twisted individual aren’t you? The way you make a misinformed and biased opinion sound like a point of fact is almost art in and of itself. Fortunately your reputation preceeds you and the only ones who care about your opinion are people like me waiting to shoot you down in flames. Get a life and an education before you make comments in future. We don’t know what happened so shut up.

if u think that telling truth abt the blah bal channel is twisted and etc etc, fine, I’d be happy to hug that one….BTW u don seem to se ur won @ucking channel , dont u?? .. u want a detailed report from me starting the recently happened series of incidents from the Moscow Bomb Blast to Airliner Crash to the Beslan Seige my friend???….. do u got the guts to hear it from me as to what ur channel telecasted live w/o any break???…… Do u got the GUT u …. whatever u may like to call , and let me also point out here that the Russian Nationalist who have been cleaning some dirty @hits missed a Brilliant chance to clean the British @hit that was present at beslan with his cameraman (hopefully a Russian employed) and with his bulletproof jacket, his unfitting helmet but that same @astardly news what he wanted his master to hear ….. and there was another fellow inside the school Joking to a republican party member on cnn abt how the locals identified him etc etc…. those two chaps were cracking jokes when the schooll was still to be cleared of the terrorist and bodies were still inside ….. u will very much get to see stuff like this when some tragedy struck in us or britain… coz the media would be showing some @ucking @astardly ______ who are ready to change rings after the funeral ceremony of their husbands weeping with that white hanki ….. etc etc…. and the media would be crying with them with all that emonotional comedy …. and the ignorant dumb ___ would be crying with pain as to how much we are suffering… @hit man real @HIT.

Serv,

I’m sorry to say Phil, but the man’s right…
Of course I don’t see the point of noting this in this thread, but he’s quite right about the Kursk reporting. They always do that when something happens in Russia:
Something good happens: They stay all quiet about it
Something normal happens: They make it sound bad
Something bad happens: They declare it a disaster and start flaming at Russia
Finally, they have started changing a slight bit in the West. Although not much.

yes ur very correct, I hope the guys over here understand as to how much of an anti-russian campaign is going around, and that in particlar has not turned to making Putin Evil, I’d love to write a big post on that

and the specifics that u made

Something good happens: They stay all quiet about it

yes thats it ! …how many of u guys have heard anything abt the Russian economy growth in the blah blah channel??…. I guess I’ve not yet! .it was the highest one probably in the whole of Europe with last year having 7.5 % growth

Something normal happens: They make it sound bad

hopefully u guys did have missed abt a TV presenter being fired and the Prono Channel TV6 that was shot down by Putin when he took office. Actually they did not stay quite, but they described it as restriction of ‘Freedowm of speech and Expression’…… yes thats what their momma and daddy teached from childhood!

Something bad happens: They declare it a disaster and start flaming at Russia
Finally

yes the Beslan one was the recent one not to mention the Krushk incident. In all these their primary focus was Putin, and I hope u guys watch their presentation , it almost based on making his Evil. And the Beslan report never ever missed Putins policy in chechnya in there conversation. But they forgot abt their support to the Chechan terrorist.

and maybe someone will showcase as to the power of this forum with its co.uk

You really are a bitter and twisted individual aren’t you? The way you make a misinformed and biased opinion sound like a point of fact is almost art in and of itself. Fortunately your reputation preceeds you and the only ones who care about your opinion are people like me waiting to shoot you down in flames. Get a life and an education before you make comments in future. We don’t know what happened so shut up.

if u think that telling truth abt the blah bal channel is twisted and etc etc, fine, I’d be happy to hug that one….BTW u don seem to se ur won @ucking channel , dont u?? .. u want a detailed report from me starting the recently happened series of incidents from the Moscow Bomb Blast to Airliner Crash to the Beslan Seige my friend???….. do u got the guts to hear it from me as to what ur channel telecasted live w/o any break???…… Do u got the GUT u …. whatever u may like to call , and let me also point out here that the Russian Nationalist who have been cleaning some dirty @hits missed a Brilliant chance to clean the British @hit that was present at beslan with his cameraman (hopefully a Russian employed) and with his bulletproof jacket, his unfitting helmet but that same @astardly news what he wanted his master to hear ….. and there was another fellow inside the school Joking to a republican party member on cnn abt how the locals identified him etc etc…. those two chaps were cracking jokes when the schooll was still to be cleared of the terrorist and bodies were still inside ….. u will very much get to see stuff like this when some tragedy struck in us or britain… coz the media would be showing some @ucking @astardly ______ who are ready to change rings after the funeral ceremony of their husbands weeping with that white hanki ….. etc etc…. and the media would be crying with them with all that emonotional comedy …. and the ignorant dumb ___ would be crying with pain as to how much we are suffering… @hit man real @HIT.

Serv,

I’m sorry to say Phil, but the man’s right…
Of course I don’t see the point of noting this in this thread, but he’s quite right about the Kursk reporting. They always do that when something happens in Russia:
Something good happens: They stay all quiet about it
Something normal happens: They make it sound bad
Something bad happens: They declare it a disaster and start flaming at Russia
Finally, they have started changing a slight bit in the West. Although not much.

yes ur very correct, I hope the guys over here understand as to how much of an anti-russian campaign is going around, and that in particlar has not turned to making Putin Evil, I’d love to write a big post on that

and the specifics that u made

Something good happens: They stay all quiet about it

yes thats it ! …how many of u guys have heard anything abt the Russian economy growth in the blah blah channel??…. I guess I’ve not yet! .it was the highest one probably in the whole of Europe with last year having 7.5 % growth

Something normal happens: They make it sound bad

hopefully u guys did have missed abt a TV presenter being fired and the Prono Channel TV6 that was shot down by Putin when he took office. Actually they did not stay quite, but they described it as restriction of ‘Freedowm of speech and Expression’…… yes thats what their momma and daddy teached from childhood!

Something bad happens: They declare it a disaster and start flaming at Russia
Finally

yes the Beslan one was the recent one not to mention the Krushk incident. In all these their primary focus was Putin, and I hope u guys watch their presentation , it almost based on making his Evil. And the Beslan report never ever missed Putins policy in chechnya in there conversation. But they forgot abt their support to the Chechan terrorist.

I’m sorry to say Phil, but the man’s right…
Of course I don’t see the point of noting this in this thread, but he’s quite right about the Kursk reporting. They always do that when something happens in Russia:
Something good happens: They stay all quiet about it
Something normal happens: They make it sound bad
Something bad happens: They declare it a disaster and start flaming at Russia
Finally, they have started changing a slight bit in the West. Although not much.

yes the British can send their rov …. but the blah blah channel wud not be enthuisaistic abt reporting this as they did for Krushk and also not to leave behind that it was they who made up to the sub caoz the Russians sub coud not make it ……. FULLY IGNORING that compared to the MIR , the British stuff is a peanut with the Russians haveing the highest passenger capacity, very long endurance and also the deepest one …… but as usual and in tune with the well known Russian Misfortunes, the Mir lost their entire power trying to dock as that damn currents was at the heaviest odds when the Russians went down …. so saaad …….but the western hypocrisy and jealousy can be seen that even after the Titanic was ‘discoverd’ , the Russian submersible is still unknown ….

You really are a bitter and twisted individual aren’t you? The way you make a misinformed and biased opinion sound like a point of fact is almost art in and of itself. Fortunately your reputation preceeds you and the only ones who care about your opinion are people like me waiting to shoot you down in flames. Get a life and an education before you make comments in future. We don’t know what happened so shut up.

I think the point was that the tower hatches were open at the same time watertight electrics compartments were open down below. There is a reason why compartments inside the boat are made watertight. That is of course that it is accepted that sometimes you may ship water.

In this case it looks, from this very preliminary commentry, like an unfortunate combination of circumstances.

i dont see a very safe design in where you risk a fire because sea water entring the sub via the hatch :rolleyes:
sorry but it doesnt make sense, such a design should have been just discarded and sent to re-design before starting the construction.
there will be a scenario where a battle damaged sub will have to surface for repairs in stormy seas or just sink and die.

about british cars…that’s another story, i love the austin coopers (old and new) and my wife loves the aston martin (actually me too 😎 )
Camaro.

Sure hope that the Upholders dont turn out to be Collins for the Canadians.

By PAUL KORING
From Saturday’s Globe and Mail

The fateful combination of HMCS Chicoutimi rolling heavily in a near gale with both conning tower hatches open while sailors probed for an electrical fault below may have allowed sea water to pour onto high-voltage lines, experienced submariners and officials close to an inquiry said yesterday.

Several veteran submariners questioned the decision by Chicoutimi’s skipper, Commodore Luc Pelletier, to allow the vessel to run “opened up” — naval jargon for having the upper and lower hatches open at the same time while on the surface.

An electrical explosion and fire sent toxic black smoke roiling through Chicoutimi on Oct. 5, killing one officer, injuring eight others and leaving Canada’s newest submarine dead in the water.

At the time, winds between 25 and 30 knots were buffeting Chicoutimi and waves ranged from six to 12 metres — “near gale” conditions off Ireland’s coast as the Canada-bound submarine rolled in the foam-flecked swells.

“In those kind of seas you want to be shut down,” said Peter Kavanaugh, a retired Canadian submarine captain who was in charge of training crews for Chicoutimi and three other refurbished submarines Canada bought from Britain. Other veteran submariners on both sides of the Atlantic echoed his assessment.

However, running opened up was “not that unusual for Canadian submarines,” said Rear Admiral Dan McNeil, commander of Canada’s Atlantic fleet. As a non-submariner, he said he had “asked the same question” about leaving both hatches open in rough seas.

After he welcomed many of Chicoutimi’s crew members home in Halifax last night, Rear Adm. McNeil also denounced reports suggesting that Cmdre. Pelletier wrongly rejected an offer on the day of the fire to attempt a helicopter evacuation of crewmen with smoke inhalation.

In a telephone interview, Rear Adm. McNeil called the reports “irresponsible speculation” based on an incomplete log of radio communication by people who weren’t aware of the weather conditions or the risks.

“It’s hurtful to the widow,” he said, referring to the wife of Lieutenant Chris Saunders, who died more than 24 hours after the fire when weather conditions had improved sufficiently to permit the risky helicopter evacuation.

A Canadian inquiry into the tragedy has not yet determined the cause of the fire.

“Running shut down” on the surface means one of the two conning tower hatches is always closed so waves don’t pour into the submarine.

“It’s always a captain’s call and there always can be extenuating circumstances,” Mr. Kavanaugh said, adding he once left both hatches open in bad weather for the removal of a badly injured crewman.

But nothing has emerged to explain why HMCS Chicoutimi had both hatches open, especially if tricky electrical work was going on.

During routine watches, the senior watch officer decides whether to run “shut down” or “opened up” on the surface, but the captain could override that decision.

In Chicoutimi’s case, factors beyond the risk of taking some unanticipated water on board in rough weather were at play.

Crew members say technicians were tracking down an electrical fault as the submarine butted its way westward, its teardrop-shaped hull, designed for submerged performance, rolling more than a surface warship.

The senior watch officer — so far the official board of inquiry has declined to identify him — should also have known about any maintenance that involved opening the sealed and watertight electrical boxes, especially those near the conning tower.

A Canadian naval officer confirmed yesterday that Chicoutimi had “experienced a water event,” meaning sea water had gushed down the conning tower through both opened hatches, the day before the Oct. 5 fire.

And senior Canadian naval officers say the investigation has confirmed “an ingress of an unspecified amount of water was followed by an electrical incident and then a fire” on Oct. 5.

The submarine’s vital electrical systems, especially the crucial switch and junction boxes, are sealed in watertight cases. But crew members have told the board of inquiry that electricians on board were probing to find an electrical fault plaguing the submarine.

“Electrics and water don’t mix,” said Ken Collins, a 22-year veteran of Royal Navy submarines and chairman of The Submariners Association. Mr. Collins, who oversaw the refurbishment of HMCS Victoria and HMCS Windsor, two of Chicoutimi’s sister submarines, said he feared Chicoutimi’s sailors had opened the watertight electrical boxes.

“They shouldn’t have been open and live,” he said, meaning opened with electrical current still flowing.

In that scenario a wave — perhaps higher than the eight- to 10-metre average reported at the time of the accident by Britain’s Meteorological Office — rolled over the conning tower. Water cascaded down through the open hatches and then surged across the main deck as the submarine rolled back.

“It’s reasonable to suspect that water from the conning tower” shorted electrical lines exposed by the opened watertight junction box, Mr. Collins said.

Several of them noted that the captain’s cabin and the electrical panel beneath it were only slightly forward and to the left port side of the vertically aligned conning tower hatches.

Although the Canadian navy ordered Chicoutimi’s three sisters tied up in port as a safety precaution in case there was fault common to all of them, a senior officer said yesterday that the navy is keen to have them back at sea.

“If it turns out that operational error rather than something intrinsically wrong with the submarines is at fault, then we can get them back sooner,” he said.

electrics by Lucas…..!!!!

hey did u guys forgot the Recent selling of the TVR to a Russian millionaire??… and MG Rover is turning to Chinese for cash – Shanghai Automotive Industry Corp (SAIC), they are are also thinking big to be a major player in the field and thats what I call a Vision – the Chinese got a Vision….. and if they had money earlier they wud definetely have bought what the American companies bought earlier, but that said I am sad that Jaguar went into the Ford’s fold….. my first love is that beautiful Jaguar with that oval grill and beautiful eyes …..OOooh I love it ! … if i was a bilionaire, I wud have bough the whole thing and mdae it at the cost of at least the Hyundai Santro ….. juat wanna see it all around me 😀 ….. call me crazy, but I just love that British Creation …. and so do i am a big fan of British classics ….

But certainly Rover is not my passion, i just don like its shape ….

SUB ARRIVES IN SCOTLAND

A Canadian submarine that was left drifting in the mid-Atlantic following a fire five days has arrived at a Scottish naval base.

The blaze on board HMCS Chicoutimi, 100 miles off the west coast of Ireland on Tuesday afternoon, claimed the life of father-of-two Lieutenant Chris Saunders, 32, and left two fellow crewmen in hospital.

The former Royal Navy sub has now arrived at HM Naval Base Clyde at Faslane, near Glasgow.

An MoD spokesman said the replacement of the salvage ship, the Anglian Price, by US support vessel Carolyn Chouest had “substantially” speeded up the operation to get the Chicoutimi and its 54 crew to shore.

The arrival time was brought forward thanks to it being towed by US support vessel Carolyn Chouest.

Sky News web site

(1) Actually, the quality of British Made Cars is world class. Britian has lost most of her manufacturing to take-over by Americans (FORD) and Germany:
Any place from where the follwoing come/have come in the past certainly can not be questioned regarding their ‘quality’

Triumph, Jaguar, Rolls Royce, Bently, Landrover, Aston Martin, Austin Healey.

I mean, come on. :rolleyes:

(2) Although any analogies drawn up with the Kursk incident are not totally correct as their is no nuclear dimension involved, one does tend to notice how differently the world media has reacted to the two events.

Please see how the same media outlet treats the stories:

(A) Kursk

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1323196.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/887978.stm

(B) HMCS Chicoutimi

Sensible and reasonable covergae from the same outlet, no Gloom / ‘The End is Near’ type of Analysis.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3721476.stm

😉

Don’t forget the Mini Cooper…
It’s selling like these British subs now days in Canada.
Pity! As they say in Britian :p …

.

If the quality of the british-made cars is any indication, then good luck to Canada for buying these subs.

(1) Actually, the quality of British Made Cars is world class. Britian has lost most of her manufacturing to take-over by Americans (FORD) and Germany:
Any place from where the follwoing come/have come in the past certainly can not be questioned regarding their ‘quality’

Triumph, Jaguar, Rolls Royce, Bently, Landrover, Aston Martin, Austin Healey.

I mean, come on. :rolleyes:

(2) Although any analogies drawn up with the Kursk incident are not totally correct as their is no nuclear dimension involved, one does tend to notice how differently the world media has reacted to the two events.

Please see how the same media outlet treats the stories:

(A) Kursk

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1323196.stm

Analysis: Russia’s military timebomb

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/887978.stm

Many believe that the tragedy of the Kursk is symbolic of the wider state of Russia’s once proud fleet.

(B) HMCS Chicoutimi

Sensible and reasonable covergae from the same outlet, no Gloom / ‘The End is Near’ type of Analysis.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3721476.stm

‘Other ships have had fires in the past and no doubt there will be fires on board our ships in the future… this is something that our professional mariners are capable of managing’, he said.

😉

yes an officer is dead, my condolences to all
the other 2 seamen are ok, good news.
now to the point…
i wonder why Canada is spending 1 billion dollars in 4 used…(to stay polite) subs ???
couldnt Canada afford new Scorpenes or type 214’s??? latin american coutrys can, but the G7 member mighty economy Canada cant?

ça pue la moufette mes amis (smells like squonk my friends)
but the politicians are talking again about raising their salaries (that i bet will pass ok very fast :dev2: )

shame on them 😡
Camaro.

:diablo:

No! It can’t be UK :p!

Reason: If it’s that unreliable, it has to be Chinese :p, it must be Chinese :p,
it’s gotta be Chinese :p. I mean who else on earth makes crappy subs like that except them
there ChiComs :p??? Damn Canucks, serve them right for buying Chinese :p!!!

Rusty buckets :p :p :p ?!!!!

:diablo:

u just put that stamp on the quality of the British sub as u mentioned above, as what all u said has been displayed by the canadian sub, unfortunately for u , its a british sub that Canadians bought.

and i guess no Chinese sub have drowned after getting super-duper repaired for 2-3 years, only the British knows or something the canadians can thrown light as to how that can be achieved. :p

yes, but theirs are new… They don’t have to do additional costs for rearmament and new electronics and then figure out the things are about to sink.
The Collins did get refurbished by the Americans right? But even then, I suppose the Collins is slighty better than the Upholder too.

And damn, we should have gone for these cheap Upholders, that was our chance to get a submarine fleet to kick our Northern Neighbour’s ass.

Does anyone know how much we paid for these subs? I hope the savings were substantial compared to purchasing new subs from France such as Agosta’s.

The original contract value for all four vessels was £226million payable in an 8 year, no interest, lease-to-buy deal. They cost us over £900million to build. As earlier stated they have had and, tragically, are still having initial teething problems on a unit to unit basis but those problems aren’t really unusual. Ask any Aussie about the Collins boats and they paid a lot more than £56million per boat for theirs!.

An appraisal that balances out what some of the sensationalist media likes to churn out: http://www.cda-cdai.ca/symposia/2000/mckinley.htm