Subcontracting rare aircraft reconstruction

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I’ll get my coat, and head off for a backpacking tour of obscure chinese airfields…….

Gis a shout when you find the ‘Holy-Grail’ (“The” ‘Chinese’-Stirling;) :rolleyes:

You’ll have an INSTANT Army of ‘Dremel’s then 😀

Victor45, everyone i’ve met at Hendon either staff or volunteer is certainly not a ‘numpty’ and does their hardest to keep Hendon as it is and improving it, i’m sure they’d all love to see W1048 returned to it’s former glory but seeming as funding doesn’t allow enough staff to be hired to keep the whole place open at once I can’t see them closing even more of it off to restore one aircraft. By the way V force kid, have we met? If not then probably will do before too long, watch out for the short ginger guy shortly to start volunteering! Also very much looking forward to seeing the Sopwith Dolphin when it’s on display

It’s a nice idea, the thought of hundreds of people or groups doing there own little bit and then bringing it together, I’m sure it would do a lot strengthening the ties between everyone within our area of interest. Unfortunately I’m with Bruce on this regards practicalities, if you were to look at something like the organisation that kept all the companies feeding into the Mosquito construction run to time, budget and specification (which I’m sure Bruce knows far more about than I) I doubt it could be done in a voluntary way. Of course if we took the hypothetical Siskin its not like trying to rebuild a Vulcan, so I wouldn’t say never…

Speaking as a Hendon nmpty (:mad: grrr!), RAFM does do its own work – the Sopwith Dolphin is a prime example of some beautiful work. However where work has gone external I don’t recall multiple contractors being used, which of course keeps project management much more simple…even then we’re not that flush for funds:(

hendon numpty well if the cap fits!!!!!

remember that this aircrft would have to be permanently static! An airworthy reproduction could not be built this way.

Albemarles were. 😮 Don’t know if any of them were ever truly airworthy though. :dev2:

Best wishes
Steve P

I don’t wish to insult anyone’s intelligence here, but I probably will…

remember that this aircrft would have to be permanently static! An airworthy reproduction could not be built this way.

I’ll get my coat, and head off for a backpacking tour of obscure chinese airfields…….

One could end up with a very strange looking beast if it were drawn from across the membership!

Wasn’t that one of the problems with the Albemarle – most of the work subcontracted out to organisations, each with very little experience in aircraft production, and each with their own idea of quality control?

Great idea though Cees. I’d love to see it happen.

Best wishes
Steve P

What is it they say about ‘great minds’? 😀

Just an idea I’ve toyed with during quiet moments.

Take a fairly basic extinct airframe but one that would arouse some interest (and yes, I know, not a good starting point)…oh, and a complete set of drawings (highly unlikely I know).

What does it actually consist of? Tens of thousands of reasonably simple light alloy (or wooden) components, several thousand more complex components, and thousands of rivets, nuts, bolts, washers and other standard parts.

Now given a large (infinite) number of aircraft enthusiasts and a couple of decades…

…anybody see where I’m going with this?

Anyway, send me some AW Siskin drawings and I’ll get my Dremel out! 🙂

Subbies…

Not to be confused with “Stubbies” which here is either a short bottle of beer or a brand of short working shorts.As we can only work on our project once a week due to work commitments subcontractors are a godsend.The equation is…small crew builds parts once a week= long frustrating time to get anything done..
Prep work,designs,setup work etc done after work and passed onto Subcontractors who are usually sympathetic to what you are wanting to achieve=parts arrive quicker plus in excellent build quality.Work gets done and frustration levels lessen.
As long as the designs are uniformed and correct (we have three drafties including myself) working hundreds of hours after work in there own time to make sure that things are correct.Well we try to..:rolleyes:
As long as everyone is in the loop and has one guy behind the scenes controlling what gets done,another making sure it gets done,and the rest either designing things that are to be done or searching out answers to make the parts so they get done.The guys on the floor have a clean idea of the parts and how they go together.Good teamwork is the key..:D

It’s a nice idea, the thought of hundreds of people or groups doing there own little bit and then bringing it together, I’m sure it would do a lot strengthening the ties between everyone within our area of interest. Unfortunately I’m with Bruce on this regards practicalities, if you were to look at something like the organisation that kept all the companies feeding into the Mosquito construction run to time, budget and specification (which I’m sure Bruce knows far more about than I) I doubt it could be done in a voluntary way. Of course if we took the hypothetical Siskin its not like trying to rebuild a Vulcan, so I wouldn’t say never…

Speaking as a Hendon nmpty (:mad: grrr!), RAFM does do its own work – the Sopwith Dolphin is a prime example of some beautiful work. However where work has gone external I don’t recall multiple contractors being used, which of course keeps project management much more simple…even then we’re not that flush for funds:(

In theory, this could be quite possible.

However, as LL has said, there does need to be a good supply of engineering drawings available, which for British aircraft is surprisingly uncommon. Where good data does exist, it is often still in the hands of BAe, who for product liability reasons will not let it go.

If we put that aside, and gain the services of a good draughtsman, then there are further difficulties to overcome.

Standards of work vary hugely across the BAPC membership, including within the national museums. One could end up with a very strange looking beast if it were drawn from across the membership! I am pleased to see that the BAPC are working towards educating as many museums as are interested in conservation best practise, as this will help enormously!

Of course, all the BAPC members have projects of their own – often multiple ones, and human resource is often rather thin on the ground!

Lastly, there is the old ‘cost’ chestnut – building and rebuilding these things is very expensive, and isnt getting any cheaper. The real cost of building anything is in manpower, but even if that comes for free, then there is still a lot of money in materials and parts.

Its a nice idea, but I dont think rebuilding by committee can work in this case.

Bruce

A touch of Airbus Industrie perhaps?

It came to mind is this not a similar idea to the airbus construction?

Better make sure everybody is using the same revision of drawings and software or it will be a Siskin shaped and sized A380 saga!

😀 😀

Scotty

Another hypothetical topic

Suppos we have an aircraft type that is leaving a gap in British aviation history say a Armstrong Whitworh Siskin (oh why not)

Would it be possible to start such a project by farming out the fabrication of many small parts that can be assembled into subassemblies and then finally be built into a fully restored/reconstructed airframe.

For instance the rudder could be built a one location with the fin at another to static condition and then assembled to a rear fuselage built somewhere else with the costs of the many parts being borne by the workshop building just that item (or similar items). This doesn’t have to be profession workers but enthusiastic people who are good with metal and wood.

Could the BAPC for instance be interested in such a project? And could this be a way to keep costs low by spreading it all across the country?

Cheers

Cees

great idea ,lets start with w1048 currently dissolving with the numptys at hendon 😎 😎

Providing ALL of the drawings for the aircraft (lets stick with Siskin) can be found or re-drawn from a single source, then in theory, from an engineering point of view, yes.

Funding such an event would be an entirely different problem. Would organisations (not so much individuals) be prepared to spend money on a project if they are going to receive no direct benefit themselves? One would have to assume that the completed aircraft would be passed to a large collection such as IWM or RAFM, collections which could probably make the aircraft themselves…. I’m pretty sure that organisations such as the BAPC do not have the available funds to spend on a project like this. (SH / BD comments?), although given the courses they run, could aircraft parts be manufactured in this way? Could aircraft technical schools be asked to help in such a project ? – 60 – 90 students a year could make many parts AFTER the completion of their studies and in free time to improve their skills.

Individuals would probably find no problem with making a few brackets for inclusion, or even spending a weekend away applying fabric to a wing.

The type of aircraft would also have a large bearing on proceedings. A Siskin could probably be made with little fuss, with only the engine being a major investment for someone. A Stirling on the other hand… well, you’d be better off buying a back-packing tour of China…

Interesting concept though….