In the beginning there was a word: and the word was God. All else was darkness and without form. So God created the heavens and the earth. He created the sun and the moon and the stars, so that light may pierce the darkness. The earth, God divided between the land and the sea and these he filled with many assorted creatures.
The dark salty slimy creatures that inhabited the seashore he called Royal Marines and he dressed them accordingly. The flighty creatures of the air he called Airy Fairies, and these he clothed in uniforms that were ruffled and foul. These creatures were not over popular, as their droppings fell on the earth below, but God forgave them because as he said: they knoweth not what they do. The lower creatures of the sea, God called Skimmers, and with a twinkle in his eye, and a big sense of humour that only he could have, God gave them big grey targets to go to sea on. He gave them many splendid uniforms to wear. He gave them wonderful and exotic places to visit. He gave them pen and paper so that they could write home every week, and he gave them make and mends at sea. He also gave them a laundry to keep their splendid uniforms clean, because when you are God you tend to get carried away.
On the seventh day, as you know, God rested and on the eighth day at 07:00 God looked down upon the earth and was not a happy person. So he thought about his labours, and with his infinite wisdom, God created a divine creature and this, he called a Submariner. And these Submariners whom God created in his own image, were to be of the deep, and to them he gave a white woolly jumper to keep them warm. He gave them steel sleek black messengers of death to roam the depths of the sea, waging war against the forces of Satan and evil. He gave them hotels to live in when they were weary of doing Gods will. He gave them subsistence so that they may entertain ladies on nights ashore, and he gave them submarine pay to impress the hell out of the creatures called Skimmers.
At the end of the eighth day God looked down upon the earth and saw that all was good, but still God was unhappy, because, in the course of his labours he had forgotten one thing. He had not given himself a Submariner’s white woolly jumper. He thought about it, and finally satisfied himself. Not just anybody can be a submariner.
By: gatling - 29th July 2004 at 13:41
Australia once had some women onboard for monitoring radio communication of red countries in asia pacific.
By: matt - 28th July 2004 at 21:04
Here you go Ja some food for your thought, i dont know much about subs but thought u migt be interested in this article.
http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/200471823.asp
The Five Nuclear Navies
by James Dunnigan
July 18, 2004
Discussion Board on this DLS topic
The nuclear attack submarine (SSN) is one of two vessels that signify a country is a major naval power (the other being the aircraft carrier). To date, five countries (the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Russia, and the People’s Republic of China) have these vessels in service, while at least one country (India) is looking into deploying them.
The United States has three classes of SSN. The mainstay of the American submarine force is the Los Angeles-class SSN. Sixty-two of these submarines were built, fifty of which remain in front-line service, making it probably the largest class of nuclear submarines that will ever be built. With four 21-inch (533-millimeter) torpedo tubes, it carries twenty-six weapons (either the Mk 48 ADCAP, the UGM-84 Harpoon anti-ship missile, or the BGM-109 Tomahawk). The last 31 Los Angeles-class SSNs add the Mk 45 vertical-launch system (VLS), which carries another twelve Tomahawks, making them closer to guided-missile submarines (SSGN).
The United States deploys two other classes. The Seawolf-class of nuclear attack submarines stopped at three from a planned class of twenty-nine. The Seawolf was designed as a super-submarine, designed to fight the Soviet Navy at its height. Carrying fifty weapons, and with eight 26-inch (660-millimeter) torpedo tubes, the Seawolf was designed for maximum performance. It delivered, posting a top speed of 35 knots – and remaining much quieter than the Los Angeles-class submarines. Reportedly, it is quieter at twenty-five knots than the Los Angeles-class submarines are at pierside. With the cutback of the Seawolf to three ships, the Navy has gone with the Virginia-class submarine. Less-capable than the Seawolf (it is much like the Los Angeles-class attack subs, but with a lot of the more-advanced systems from the Seawolf-class subs, particularly the quieting and sonar systems), it was supposed to be less expensive. The Virginia-class submarines are estimated to have a unit cost of $2.1 billion, but found a way to get the first six built for a total cost of $8.7 billion ($1.45 billion each). Like the Los Angeles-class, the Virginia-class submarines will be improved as the class is built.
The British SSN is the Trafalgar-class. This class of seven boats is considered on par with the Los Angeles class. Armed with five 21-inch torpedo tubes, the Trafalgar carries Spearfish torpedoes, along with the Harpoon and Tomahawk missiles. The Trafalgar-class subs (and the Astute-class, an evolved Trafalgar design) are much smaller in number, however, their edge lies in the training of their commanding officers. The British “Perisher” course is arguably the best training for a submarine commander in the world.
France’s SSN, the Amethyste class, is a small submarine (2400 tons, compared to the 6900 tons of a Los Angeles class). The crew is half that of the American Los Angeles-class as well (66 compared to 133). The submarine is slower than the American submarines (28 knots compared to the 35+ of the Los Angeles and Seawolf-classes). It carries L5 torpedoes and submarine-launched Exocet anti-ship missiles.
The Akula is the top-of-the line SSN in the Russian Navy. With eight torpedo tubes (four 650-millimeter and four 533-millimeter), it carries a variety of torpedoes. The Russian SSNs do not carry anti-ship missiles. However, the Type 65 torpedo has a range comparable to the Exocet (50 kilometers at 90 kilometers an hour/100 kilometers at 54 kilometers an hour), and is a wake-homing torpedo. The torpedo gives the Akula a one-shot kill capability against any naval vessel short of an aircraft carrier due to its huge warhead (1,984 pounds).
The Chinese SSN, the Han-class, is a much older (first unit built in 1974) and slower (25 knots) design. With six 533-millimeter torpedo tubes, it carries a decent punch, but primarily has older weapons (the SET-65E torpedo). Unlike Russian SSNs, the later units (403, 404, and 405) can carry the C-801 anti-ship missile.
Which of these navies has the best submarine? In a one-to-one matchup with another SSN, the British Trafalgar probably has the edge due to the high quality of its crews and sensors. British SSN commanders have much more tactical training than their American counterparts (mostly due to what some consider an overconcentration on engineering caused by the influence of Hyman G. Rickover). However, the United States Navy,
through sheer volume of numbers and solid training (albeit not as good as the British) probably has the best force overall. – Harold C. Hutchison (hchutch@ix.netcom.com)
Class Nation Displacement Number
Los Angeles USA 6,900 50 (12 retired)
Seawolf USA 9,000 3
Virginia USA 7,800 0+4
Trafalgar UK 4,700 7
Akula Russia 10,700 10+6
Amethyste France 2,670 6
Han China 4,500 5
“+” indicates the number under construction. Displacement is in tons.
By: Ja Worsley - 26th July 2004 at 16:04
Strong words there mate, incase you don’t know, I too was a $hit tuber, and I would had never given it up to work on the Targets if you paid me to (i only had to because of my job- you know how it is).
I don’t care what side is wrong or right, I am happy with how I live, politics has no say in the military. I challenge anyone to live in a tube under the water in such confined space, if you don’t have claustrophobia, then this will really test you! I know SSN’s spend a fair amount of time under water on patrols, especially American ones, but six weeks on an O baot was my longest stretch (HMAS Onslow- RIMPac 97) and then there was the time I was on HMAS Collins when she got stuck under because the computer broke and wouldn’t accept the blow ballest command (it was a push of a button in this boat- later manual controls were added).
Yes we are all brothers in the sub community, but most of us don’t give a hoot about politics. Love to hear more from you, perhaps in a private message.
By: O.P. - 26th July 2004 at 02:51
So the GOD is actually none other than ?? …. YEAH …… 😀 😀 😀 Unkil SAM 😀 😀 😀 …..
no wonder that many in between the Atlantic and the pacific thinks like that with the single though that they are ALWAYS RIGHT and can NEVER be WRONG and have the duty of ‘policing’ the world and duty bound for the sake of ‘Humanity’ to ‘KEEP’ all thats Naturally precious and good 😀 ….. and did i hear that ‘HEAVEN’ lies some where in the region of Louisiana and Texas or in other words spread along the coastline of these two states. And indeed the Heaven has got damn goodies too with nearly 3-digit million tonnes of precious Goodies which ppl around the Globe has ‘DONATED’ 😀 whenever ‘GOD” has come in person to meet those ‘LUCKY’ guys. :p :p
Hi!
It’s my first time posting here. I saw this and had to say something. I’m a former fast attack submarine sailor with the U.S. Navy. I’ve met Submarine Sailors from all over the world when I was in the service, the majority of them being from England and Australia. I’ve had the opportunity to converse with Boat sailors from everywhere since then. The thing I’ve learned is that, we are one, brothers, no matter what side we’re on, or what crappy job’s we have to do. I don’t think that thought/idea/whatever has been present in that way in a military group since the very early days of combat aviation. As for using this forum to promote a political view………This probably isn’t the place…..but seeing that you trailblazed that path without a post deletion…I’ve got a couple of things to say.
Do you like your life? It’s pretty cool that you have the ability to use a computer and talk about things you disagree with.
In my view whats going on is a fundamental difference in Ideology. I believe in Western Ideology. I think that is the best thing going. Everybody basically gets to do what they want, just don’t hurt no one else. Our middle eastern buddies, or whatever, believe they are right. I assume that all muslim people there, or around the world don’t believe the same as them, but it’s rapidily beginning to cease to matter. Just like I think that all Germans weren’t nazi’s or all Japanese weren’t Imperial, It ceases to matter beyond a certain point. I guess that point would be Poland, Pearl Harbor, Singapore, Nanking,,,or the World Trade Center. They say they want me dead, or to submit, Congratulations dip sh**s, I believe you.
The only reason the Nazi’s and the Inperial Japanese don’t exist, and the populations under their sway don’t exist, Is because an entire generation was killed, and the rest walked away with a limp. If that sounds tough, look at the results. They are now two of the most pu**ified nations in the western world. It’s time to give the same treatment to those who want us dead now.
I like the way I live. I think people would be better off if they had the opportunities and had the basic life I have had. I think thats worth fighting for, Just like they think their Ideolgy is worth fighting for, suiciding for, for whatever reasons. I want to win.
I come from a long line of Americans, Englishmen, and Europeans, and a long line of military service. I think our way of life is right, and I think it’s nothing to apologize for.
O.P.
(P.S. Say Hi to the Iman, I’ll be long dead)
By: matt - 17th July 2004 at 10:03
Chinese produce new type of sub
By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
China’s naval buildup has produced a new type of attack submarine that U.S. intelligence did not know was under construction, according to U.S. defense and intelligence officials.
The submarine was spotted several weeks ago for the first time and has been designated by the Pentagon as the first Yuan-class of submarine.
A photograph of the completed submarine in the water at China’s Wuhan shipyard was posted on a Chinese Internet site this week and confirmed by a defense official as the new submarine. Wuhan is located inland, some 420 miles west of Shanghai.
One official said the new submarine was a “technical surprise” to U.S. intelligence, which was unaware that Beijing was building a new non-nuclear powered attack submarine. U.S. intelligence agencies have few details about the new submarine but believe it is diesel-powered rather than nuclear-powered, said officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity.
The new boat, which appears to be a combination of indigenous Chinese hardware and Russian weapons, suggests that China is building up its submarine forces in preparation for a conflict over Taiwan, defense analysts say.
“China has decided submarines are its first-line warships now, their best shot at beating carriers,” said Sid Trevethan, an Alaska-based specialist on the Chinese military. “And China is right.”
“One has to marvel at the enormity of the investment by the People’s Liberation Army in submarines,” said Richard Fisher, a specialist on the Chinese military.
China also is building two nuclear-powered submarines — one Type 093, believed to be based on the Russian Victor-III class and armed with intercontinental ballistic missiles, and a Type 094 attack submarine, which the Pentagon believes has a finished hull and will be ready for deployment next year.
According to Mr. Trevethan, China currently has a force of 57 deployed submarines, including one Xia-class nuclear ballistic missile submarine, five Han submarines, four Kilos, seven Songs, 18 Mings and 22 Soviet-designed Romeos. Beijing also has eight more Kilos on order with Russia.
Disclosure of the new submarine comes as the United States is trying to sell eight diesel submarines to Taiwan, which Beijing views as a breakaway province. Taiwan currently has just two World War II-era Guppy-class submarines and two 1980s Dutch submarines.
Mr. Fisher, an analyst with the International Assessment and Strategy Center, said that despite the imbalance of power on the Taiwan Strait in favor of Beijing, the Bush administration has been slow to sell the submarines it offered Taiwan in April 2001.
“It is simply appalling that the United States cannot get its act together to organize the production of eight new submarines for Taiwan,” Mr. Fisher said.
U.S. defense officials have said delays with the Taiwan submarine deal are the result of the Taipei government’s budget problems.
Chinese leaders told National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice last week that China would “not sit idly by” as Taiwan moved toward formal independence, and President Hu Jintao denounced U.S. weapons sales to Taiwan.
But Miss Rice said the United States will go ahead with its Taiwan arms sales plan because of China’s missile buildup opposite the island.
A Pentagon report made public in May stated that China is changing its warship forces from a coastal defense force to one employing “active offshore defense.”
“This change in operations requires newer, more modern warships and submarines capable of operating at greater distances from China’s coast for longer periods,” the report said, noting that submarine construction is a top priority.
Mr. Fisher said the Chinese submarine buildup should prompt the Pentagon to step up U.S. anti-submarine warfare capabilities, which he said are “at an historic low” because of cutbacks in specialized ships and aircraft.
The Navy should consider building its own diesel attack submarine to be able to “effectively duke it out with the new tidal wave of Chinese subs, that if left unchecked, may soon dominate the Asian littoral regions,” Mr. Fisher said.
The Pentagon is also building up U.S. naval forces in the Pacific, with the addition of up to six attack submarines in Guam and the possible deployment of an aircraft carrier battle group to Hawaii in the coming months.
washington times.http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040716-123134-8152r.htm
By: Ja Worsley - 16th July 2004 at 18:58
Fair enough mate, we all know America is a bag of dirty tricks, they have even tried to interfere with our federal ellections to keep little Johnny in. Bad play.
Just once I’d like to see a thread where no one mentions any bad stuff about anyone esle, I know I can dream, but hey!
By: Blackcat - 16th July 2004 at 18:17
Oh No Ja ….
i did not meant to throw some flith on the submariners, but just on that general dirty stuff abt us, thats all. Anad frankly no offense meant too , just happened that the original post happened to be yours, but cud not held back from posting the dirty american bussiness tycoons policies …
By: Ja Worsley - 16th July 2004 at 17:44
Blackcat, calm yourself. I have no quarrel with anyone that goes below 150 Meters wether they are American, Russian, German, Japanese or Chinese, they all know the risks!
The USN has lost many people in the Cold war simply because they were trying to do much that could not be done. I spent 6 weeks on one trip under water, so I won’t take any bad words on any thread about us Subbies, ok mate!
By: coanda - 12th July 2004 at 12:58
in desert storm most raf aircraft were pink, or ‘sand’ to give it its non girly name! apparantly most of it came from B&Q.
there were quite a few vivid colours on uboats and british/american subs during ww2 some in dazzle paint schemes, i believe efforts were taken to reduce the visual signs of subs underwater in the clearer oceans such as the med and in some eastern areas.
By: tingudu - 11th July 2004 at 19:05
Hey, I think some RAF Jags in ODS were pinkish/ sand too….???
By: Flanker_man - 11th July 2004 at 16:35
Believe it or not, periscopes were painted pink because it was thought that pink took on the hue of the surrounding colors. I even saw a pink A-4 skyhawk on a US carrier once. It was a light shade of pink, but it was pink.
Which is why some photo-recce Spitfires were also painted light pink……..
Ken
By: mixtec - 10th July 2004 at 23:00
Believe it or not, periscopes were painted pink because it was thought that pink took on the hue of the surrounding colors. I even saw a pink A-4 skyhawk on a US carrier once. It was a light shade of pink, but it was pink.
By: Mike Echo - 10th July 2004 at 22:18
I guess the sub is less visible from the air with black color. The green is probably better in the clear water in the Med. I read somewhere that the WW2 subs in the Med was quite visible at periscope depth or even deeper, from the air.
Anyway, that pink sub……. it’s actually a fairly good idea as it’s bloody difficult to shoot straight when you are laughing your head off! 😀 😀 😀
By: Ja Worsley - 9th July 2004 at 04:06
No No No not the pink sub, now us Subbys will never live it down 🙁
By: fightingirish - 8th July 2004 at 18:13
Not ALL subs are black!!!
Hi folks,
remember the movie “Operation Petticoat” from 1959 starring Cary Grant & Tony Curtis!
Their sub had special camouflage!!! 😀 😀 😀
fightingirish
By: bring_it_on - 8th July 2004 at 14:29
thanx…
By: GDL - 8th July 2004 at 14:21
cool….got any pics of the ssn-virginia
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/ssn-774-gallery.htm
🙂
By: bring_it_on - 8th July 2004 at 13:56
cool….got any pics of the ssn-virginia
By: Ja Worsley - 8th July 2004 at 13:31
Not ALL subs are black, here allow me
Here’s a Green one
And a Yellow one
please don’t sing it
Actually there is a Sub in the Us that is the last diesel/electric boat in the US (an Old one from Navy0 that is now being used for research and it’s painted in a Matt yellow colour.
By: bring_it_on - 8th July 2004 at 12:23
why are all subs black
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July 8, 2004 at 12:13 pm