Sunderland wreck in the Chatham Islands – Recent Photos

My father flew with the RNZAF Sunderlands quite a bit up to Fiji.

The Sunderland at Hendon looks great, here are a few outside/inside photos from a review I put up a few months ago:

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/Museums/Hendon/BritishWw2/index.html#SunderlandFromAbove

Richard.

Peter,
Stirling/Sunderland wing construction is similar (Stirling being based on the Sunderland look at the tailsection as well) but different sizes.
Pity, would have been a great boost for the Stirling project.
Cees

Cees,
Do you know how much commonality there is in the parts used to make up the wing – as Peter said, fuel tank covers, and other bits such as control runs, wing spar structures etc. I’m sure the Stirling Project must have looked into this but I’m just curious.
I know the Empire Boats and Sunderlands looked similar but had quite different construction – the Sunderlands used a lot more machined parts.

Silly thing to say, but when I bought my Airfix Sunderland kit in the 60’s, and what a big b##### it was, I built it as a BOAC example.

I dropped a book on my Airfix kit. Shame I didn’t keep it – would have made a nice Chatham Islands model.

Peter,

Stirling/Sunderland wing construction is similar (Stirling being based on the Sunderland look at the tailsection as well) but different sizes.

Pity, would have been a great boost for the Stirling project.

Cees

During WWII some Sunderlands were converted for BOAC and called Hythes but they only had the turrets removed and some benches fitted inside.

Allan

Silly thing to say, but when I bought my Airfix Sunderland kit in the 60’s, and what a big b##### it was, I built it as a BOAC example.
I presume that in those days without the internet, I got all my info from the local library. I remember fairing over the turrets with plastic wood and making the civilian registration numbers out of brown sticky tape then painting them black, my mates were quite impressed with the result, I’m sure it must be lurking in the depths of my mothers garage, I’ll look for it the next time I go up there, bet it looks horrific.
If I remember rightly they were finished in an all over grey/green camo colour.

Of those eight surviving Short flying boats, four have a history of serving here in NZ

Not bad for a poor country :p

Actually three have a history with France and three with Australia. God bless NZ and the rest of the world for helping preserve UK heritage!

Of those eight surviving Short flying boats, four have a history of serving here in NZ

So how many intact Sunderlands are there

It depends how you classify the civil conversions but these are the survivors of the large Short Brothers flying boats:

Short Sunderland
ML824 – Sunderland MKV – The RAF Museum, Hendon, UK
ML786 – Sunderland MKV – Imperial War Museum, Duxford, UK
SZ584/NZ4115 – Sunderland MkV – Museum of Transport and Technology, Auckland, New Zealand

Civil Sunderland
ML814/N814ML – Civil Sunderland V – Fantasy of Flight, Polk City, Florida, USA

Short Sandringham
JM715/Beachcomber – Sandringham IV – Solent Sky, Southampton (formerly Hall of Aviation) UK
JM719/F-OBIP – Sandringham 7 – Musee De L’Air et L’Espace, Le Bourget, France

Short Solent
NJ203/N9946F Solent III – Western Aerospace Museum, Oakland, USA
ZK-AMO ‘Aranui’ Solent IV – Museum of Transport and Technology, Aukland, New Zealand.

The Sandringham is a Sunderland conversion which remodelled the nose and tail and, of course, extensively altered the interior.
Kermit Week’s example at Fantasy of Flight was converted in Australia and really only has the turret apertures plated over rather than getting a full Sandringham nose, so is probably best called a civil Sunderland. During WWII some Sunderlands were converted for BOAC and called Hythes but they only had the turrets removed and some benches fitted inside. Postwar some Short Brothers conversions were simply refered to as Sunderlands if they didn’t have a Sandringham nose.

The Solent is based on the new longer fuselage for the MkIV Sunderland. They were either converted from the military MkIVs (also called Short Seaford) or new build – one of each has survived.

So the answer to the question is three or four.

I was lucky not only to have seen the Kermit Weekes ‘Solent’, fly at Biggin Hill one year, but remember seeing service examples flying over the Solent in the mid 50’s.

I was very fortunate to be on board Kermit Weeks aircraft during a step taxy run when it was in the UK. Ah happy days.

Allan

So how many intact Sunderlands are there, NZ 1, Kermit Weekes 1 and the 3 at DX, Hendon and Southampton, any more about.
I was lucky not only to have seen the Kermit Weekes ‘Solent’, fly at Biggin Hill one year, but remember seeing service examples flying over the Solent in the mid 50’s.
Lovely pictures, shame it wasn’t saved years ago, but it has a certain charm and subsequent air of inevitability in the condition that it’s now in.

I am fairly sure the disassembly over the years was by the islanders making use of parts for various things, such as one wing became a shed roof from memory, etc.

I would definately like to see the cockpit go to the Wigram Museum if nothing else but obviously they were not interested in it. At least we have one complete Sundy in Auckland and a cockpit preserved in Christchurch.

There is another Sunderland I have read of which was sunk in a river near Jui in West Africa where 490 (NZ) Squadron operated it. i wonder if it’s still salvagable. If it were a slow gentle deep cold river, maybe. They operated the aircraft off that river so it can’t have been rapids. I think it was a Mk III.

I thought some of you may be interested in these fascinating photos taken recently in the Chatham Islands

Fabulous photos. Many thanks Dave.

I thought I had read somewhere that the wreck had been towed offshore and sunk so thanks for clearing that up so well – it’ll teach me for believing what I read on the internet.

I notice on the other site it says she was stripped of some parts in in the mid 90s for the Wigram Museum in New Zealand. She certainly looks dismantled. The tail section has been separated at a construction joint. So, apart from keeping her stablemates flying in the 60s, she has already made a contribution to museums. It seems quite romantic that the islanders want to keep her there.

I am sure some of the wing parts could be used for a recreation of a stirling??

There are possibilities of other wrecked Sunderlands if anybody really, really wanted another. Weren’t the loughs in Northern Irelands discussed on here recently as a possibility? So there might be some Sunderland/Stirling wing parts closer to the UK.

There’s a good selection of large Short Brothers flying boats in preservation (and in need of support) but personally I’ve always thought it a shame that Australia didn’t have one – either military and civilian.

The cockpit alone would make a great display.

But will it be at Newark :diablo:

Hear hear Fouga. New Zealand is not that poor Sadsack. And I believe those who live in the Chathams are fairly content with their lot, and are also rather attached to their Sunderland wreck.

damn, so it won’t be at legends then?

Hear hear Fouga. New Zealand is not that poor Sadsack. And I believe those who live in the Chathams are fairly content with their lot, and are also rather attached to their Sunderland wreck.

I refuse to beleive a poor country like this would turn down a decent sum of money or vital facilitie.

Since when is NZ a poor country?:diablo:

re

if you want to do something, find the money. They areplenty of millionares who have tried andsome have suceded and others have not been so lucky.

I refuse to beleive a poor country like this would turn down a decent sum of money or vital facilitie.

For the geographically challenged, the Chatham Islands lie some 800 km to the east of New Zealand. Aerial access is made by Convair 580 and the internal air service used to be by Bristol Freighter!:)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham_Islands

Google Earth 43°48′36″S, 176°27′26″W
Convair at Tuuta Airport

For the geographically challenged, the Chatham Islands lie some 800 km to the east of New Zealand. Aerial access is made by Convair 580 and the internal air service used to be by Bristol Freighter!:)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham_Islands

Thanks Dave

I spied that wing tank cover in the grass with a bit of camo paint and some tlc it could make a nice stirling item! Lots of wing structure there for sure someone should try and rescue the wing sections.

I’m fairly sure the RNZAF Museum once sent a team to survey it and found it well beyond their means. And also I have heard the Ilsanders are very attached to it. It’s a shame it wasn’t brought indoors in the 1980’s or so. I think it’s too far gone now. And I can’t imagine anyone using it as the basis for a rebuild, sadly. Think of the cost to rebuild it.

Not a bad idea on the Stirling wings that Peter.

Wow amazing pics!

I remember reading something about that in flypast many many years ago. I wonder why nothing has been done to save the parts? I am sure some of the wing parts could be used for a recreation of a stirling??

Hi Dave. Do you know if any museum or collector has their eye on this. Looks like there are some quite substantial parts there. The cockpit alone would make a great display. Thanks for sharing.

Ben.