Supermarine Attackers in Pakistan.

And no you can’t make a Spiteful from one!

Absolutely.. far better to make a Seafang instead.:D

Now I do like Attackers, but I can’t see why anyone would want to go through the diplomatic work, and search a fairly harsh environment in the hope that something may be left from an Attacker!
And no you can’t make a Spiteful from one!

The question is for real, why not?
Teams are (were?) scouring the Russian tundras for aircraft wrecks. The prinicple is the same, perhaps some wreckage is still extant (Attacker, Halifax, Tempest etc.).

Cheers

Cees

Thanks for the Usman.

Is your question for real Cees?

Would it be possible to visit crash-sites in Pakistan then to find any components that might be of use in a reconstruction of either an Attacker (or dare I say it) a Spitful?

Cheers

Cees

Jagan, you sound like you know a bit about PAF history, do you know anything about the Attackers’ service?

The Attacker was in Pakistan Air Force service from 1950 till 1956. Even though, being the first jet fighter of PAF, it was not considered a good aircraft due to its handling characteristics. One senior PAF pilot once described it as “…the only thing this aircraft was good at was setting the grass on fire at Sargodha Air Base…”. It also had a poor safety record, so much so that once a mother of a young pilot came to the CO of the Attacker Sqn and asked him, if this (pointing towards the Attacker parked on the ramp) thing is safe to fly. To satisfy the mother the CO gave a demo of aircraft’s handling capabilities right then and there.
After retirement the aircraft might have been stored for couple of years and later most likely sold as scrap.

Just came up with this..

The Attackers last service career was with the Pakistan Air Force. After protracted negotiations 36 Attackers were sold to Pakistan, 33 were ferried out by Supermarine pilots, and the other 3 were flown out by Pakistan Air Force pilots as an exercise, the flying time to Karachi averaging 11 hr and 40 mins.

But.. i have also read that they were in fact registered to the Pakistan Navy.:confused:

I knew one of the pilots who ferried the aircraft out to Pakistan, he was in fact a Royal Navy pilot on leave, he told me that several of his friends also flew aircraft out, sadly he is no longer with us but his name lives on on the side of the Attacker at FAAM

Nice link with some interesting (if poor quality) pics, never seen one in the British ‘B’ class markings before.

Here’s another one in B class marks destined to be R4000, not sure of the location, Farnborough circa 1951?

Never seen pics of the Pakistani Halifaxes before either. Thanks for the link.
How were these aiframes disposed off, were they that thorough while neighbouring countries have massive scrapyards containing biplanes from the thirties. Strange world. No bits surviving? No wheels, engines, pieces of airfrrame.

Cheers

Cees

Nice link with some interesting (if poor quality) pics, never seen one in the British ‘B’ class markings before.

I believe that they were officially de-navalised aircraft for the Air Force

A couple of poor quality but interesting here

http://www.defence.pk/gallery/showgallery.php/cat/672

and article here

http://www.pakdef.info/pakmilitary/airforce/pioneers/jetage.html

Just came up with this..

The Attackers last service career was with the Pakistan Air Force. After protracted negotiations 36 Attackers were sold to Pakistan, 33 were ferried out by Supermarine pilots, and the other 3 were flown out by Pakistan Air Force pilots as an exercise, the flying time to Karachi averaging 11 hr and 40 mins.

But.. i have also read that they were in fact registered to the Pakistan Navy.:confused:

Jagan, you sound like you know a bit about PAF history, do you know anything about the Attackers’ service?

It is a bit of a head scratcher that one. Maybe ties to the UK had something to do with it, then again why not Meteors (twin engines, hot conditions, a better choice?)

Sometimes a slightly underpowered single engine type is better/safer/carries more useful load, than an underpowered twin.
In other words, the added weight of the second engine cancels out any advantage it would otherwise have.

It is a bit of a head scratcher that one. Maybe ties to the UK had something to do with it, then again why not Meteors (twin engines, hot conditions, a better choice?)

.

Part of the reason is the influence of the senior staff who were all British. The PAF had RAF officers as its Chiefs atleast till 1957. So some of the aircraft procurement decisions would have been heavily influenced by the chief’s preferences, which in turn could have been dictated by industry / air ministry advice.

AK that kind of explains why the PAF didn’t get the F-80 or straight wing F-84, but you would think that the more export friendly Meteor (as said by BSG-75) would have been the better choice.
Mind you I wouldn’t be surprised if the Attackers just came from unallocated FAA orders, like a few export machines were.

Really would like to know more about their service, if anyone else here knows anything.

Does anyone know how much service use they actually got? Seems a very odd type to have found favour in that part of the world, would love to have been in on the sales meeting!

It is a bit of a head scratcher that one. Maybe ties to the UK had something to do with it, then again why not Meteors (twin engines, hot conditions, a better choice?)

single engined, tail dragging dragging design? Odd choice I agree.

P01: a very odd type to have found favour in that part of the world, would love to have been in on the sales meeting! There wasn’t one.

10/44: Jet-Spiteful initiated. Proved to be slower than the piston forebear, with no payload or range. But: US MWDP took it onboard and part-funded RN’s 11/49 production order. In winter 1947-48 the ex-Royal Indian Air Force had torn itself apart, Tempest v.Tempest in Kashmir. IAF and PakAF sought the next generation. US tried its Latin America stance of denying modern kit to lesser folk that couldn’t master it, so IAF took Ouragan. UK had hoped to bequeath a peaceful ex-Raj, but Burma had already gone odd, Malaya had an “Emergency”, China in 1949 was doing very strange things and might soon turn off HK’s water supply. We diverted some of the windfall detritus in MoS ELDO and DoD MWDP stores at S.Marston, and magic-ed up more Attackers as Aid to Pak. US may not have known what proportion of their cost fell on $ account. Then came Korea. US learnt, and supplied F-86F, then F-104C to PAF, so India took Mysteres, Hunters, MiG-21.

The Pakistanis have been very good in consolidating their vintage collections for display in the Karachi Museum. If any attacker survivors were there, I dont think they will get wasted away in storage. Its a pretty good call to say no Attackers survive (atleast intact)

Pakistani Attackers

Despite numerous rumours of ex PAF Attackers being seen in Pakistan, does anyone have any proof that some do still exist.. and if so whereabouts?

I know the FAAM have an ex RN example on display and i have always assumed that is the only survivor of the type.

On this theme which interests me very much, I read in a recent publication that the Pakistan Attackers were in effect de-navalised versions.
Does anyone know whether the wings were still manufactured with the split
in the wings but were inoperable or were they as on the Spiteful a complete
fixed wing? [ would they have bothered to re-tool for just 36 aircraft?]

Regards

Graham