Supermarine Aviation Works Ltd

Calshot 1928 again. Kinkead climbing into the cockpit

SimonSpitfire,
First photos was taken at Calshot prior to Kinkead’s fatal attempt to take the air speed record in 1928. The second, also at Calshot, is from 1927 during testing and practice prior to the 1927 Schneider Trophy contest in Venice.

Many thanks Schneiderman, and this one? [ATTACH=CONFIG]250500[/ATTACH]

SimonSpitfire,
First photos was taken at Calshot prior to Kinkead’s fatal attempt to take the air speed record in 1928. The second, also at Calshot, is from 1927 during testing and practice prior to the 1927 Schneider Trophy contest in Venice.

I believe there were possibly other places in Southampton that were used – including according to one who was there…the Portswood Corporation bus depot. but this list is from my website …just Southampton locations.

HTH

SOUTHAMPTON/DISPERSED SPITFIRE PRODUCTION WW2.The following sites were use after the
bombing of the Woolston Supermarine works-:
Sewards Garage(Fuselage & Jig production),
Polygon Hotel(Design office),demolished since.
Hants & Dorset Bus Station(assembly),..Grosvenor Place..demolished
Henlys Garage(Fuselage assembly), I belierve this was on Winchester Rd …and had a long vehicle ramp to the second floor…now gone
Sunlight Laundry(Detail fitting etc),
Lothers Garage(Toolroom),
Shorts Garage(Machine Shop),
Weston Rolling Mills(Coppersmiths), ..see picture.
Chisnells Garage(Press Shop/Sheet metal),
Lingwood Precision-owned by Sewards(Landing gear)-this last piece of information thanks to
Bill Seward ,nephew of Roland Seward – the owner of Sewards Garage.

Rolling Mills

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Dave,
As per my post above I have a number of postcards that show the Woolston site over the years. Like you I have been trying to work out the sequence of build on the site. PM me if you would like scans

Hi,

Just come to the thread and noticed the pair of pictures of the floating bridge and Woolston Works in post #9.

Cheers
Dave

Both are postcards and you are correct, the second is post-war

Webbs photos credited as Vickers were in his archives and I daresay the duplicates are in the Cambridge University archives of their succesors (BAE Systems ?).

Some are in the Vickers archive at Cambridge University, but not all … or at least I have not managed to find them (yet). If anyone does have any pictures of the Supermarine works or dispersal sites I would be very interested (I know … wouldn’t we all … 😉 ) but I am trying to pull together a history of the works and the dispersal, a sideline to my voluntary role as the historian for Hursley Park (Supermarine’s Design and Production base from Dec 1940 to 1958) and to help a few “projects” on the works and dispersal sites … so any help would be gratefully received.

Cheers
Dave

Hi,

Just come to the thread and noticed the pair of pictures of the floating bridge and Woolston Works in post #9.

I’m really interested in the second picture of the remainder of the Woolston works and Floating Bridge. Do you know where it came from? I think it would be have to be post war, and probably quite a bit later (1950s ?) based on the tower blocks in the background.

Cheers
Dave

In addition to my post #6 – I found this photo of the old Pemberton-Billing hangar in Woolston while looking for a Sopwith floatplane
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http://www.kingstonaviation.org/100-years-ago/1914.html

Martin

A lot of interesting points there. Certainly the protection of access to oil dominated a great deal of Foreign Office policy from WW1 onwards, most especially in the Middle East. The history of BP in particular makes interesting reading in that regard (rather than Shell who were more centred in the Far East and lacked the large direct government share holding).
Flying boat manufacturers were in the vanguard for metal construction, led by Shorts but with others following close behind. Supermarine’s production contract for the all-wood Southampton in 1924 included the requirement for one experimental metal hull and similar was demanded of Blackburn for the Iris. The requirement for land-based aircraft to have metal structure soon followed, for which most mainstream manufacturers had already made provision.
Vickers let the flying boat market drift after a successful early start with the Viking family and plans for an extremely large all-metal flying boat and appear to have decided to regain the lost ground through acquiring Supermarine, although there is little in the years following the take-over to indicate any desire to move the company in new directions.
Looking behind the curtains on 1930s British aircraft companies there are an interesting array of often short-lived investment companies with fingers in many pies. I guess a lot of people saw their money evaporate, nothing much changes in the world of business.

So the story appears to be as follows. (BMANC) was established in April 1923 as a joint venture between Supermarine, Southern Railways and the Asiatic Petroleum Co
In 1926 Supermarine reconfigured the Woolston Works to incorporate facilities and equipment necessary for a metal-working division.

Reading between the lines and reflecting on Big Oil in the 1920’s investing in inventions that would increase the use of petroleum products you have to admire the oil money risk capital that went into converting a loss making boat shop into a loss making developer of sleek racing planes, punting on more prosiac Admiralty contracts for elephantine flying boats.
I understand the Air Ministry stipulated in 1926 that all service aircraft would henceforth have to be made of metal, pushing Armstrong Siddely to convert the timber Siskin into the all steel Siskin III, Bristol’s to develop the strip steel Bulldog, Hawkers to develop the steel Hart family and it appears Supermarine to have a tense directors’ meeting to resolve to tip in a fortune to setup a metal working shop…
Vickers was a child of Royal Dutch Shell, that made money out of Army troop carriers, Fleet torpedo carriers and a lot of ugly biplanes that never seemed to go into scale development. You can imagine the frustrated Directors meeting at Vickers where some bewhiskered titan resolved to buy Mitchell…
The way I understand this period is by reference to to all the extraordinary dealing, spectacular failures and overnight fortunes made out of the dot com boom and Silicon Valley. Neville Shute’s “Slide Rule”, in his admission of the heart condition brought on through his experience of establishing and running Airspeed, fobbing off creditors and chancing deals that could turn fortunes overnight is a wonderful insight into what the silent bricks of Supermarine would say, if they could talk..

The writing on the gauge refers to Supermarine drawing 3090, which is the main tank for the Seagull III, which you guys were flying, say the main tank held 100gals, so two tanks of 50gals each

Thank you Schneiderman for a S6 speed type reply!

So the story appears to be as follows. British Marine Air Navigation Co (BMANC) was established in April 1923 as a joint venture between Supermarine, Southern Railways and the Asiatic Petroleum Co with Supermarine director Hubert Scott-Paine as manager. They order three Supermarine Sea Eagle amphibians to operate routes from Southampton to the Channel Islands and Cherbourg (to link-up with trans-Atlantic passenger liners). Route-proving flights start in August but the Cherbourg route turned out to be a non-starter as negotiations with the French authorities stalled. One of Supermarine’s older hangars at the Woolston Works was co-opted as a base and scheduled flights to St Peter Port in Guernsey commenced in September, but were suspended for the winter in November. Also in November Scott-Paine severed his links with Supermarine and his shareholding was bought out by the other directors.
BMANC was one of the airlines merged to form Imperial Airways on 31st March 1924 and Scott-Paine became a director. Sea Eagle scheduled services to the Channel Islands resumed in May but one, G-EBFK, was wrecked within days. The other two carried on until the autumn, when the service was again suspended for the winter.
In 1926 Supermarine reconfigured the Woolston Works to incorporate facilities and equipment necessary for a metal-working division. Around mid-year work was underway on the first metal hull for a Southampton flying boat and the metal fuselage for the S5 Schneider racing seaplane. It looks likely that the hangar used by Imperial Airways had its lease terminated around this time as it is understood to have been used by the metalworking department for heat treatment and enamelling. From the aerial photo posted earlier in this thread it seems that Imperial Airways moved its operations to a hangar and slipway just downstream at the Lloyds Albert Yard and Motor Packet Company.
A second Sea Eagle was wrecked at moorings in St Peter Port in January 1927. As this is deep in the winter months when the service was not in operation it suggests that Imperial overwintered at least one aircraft there, another indication that they had reduced access to hangars. The service continued using the one remaining Sea Eagle and over the following years it was joined for brief periods by the Supermarine Sawn and a Short Calcutta until the service was withdrawn in 1929.

I used to live there and am still learning things I didn’t know, great thread!

BMANC did eventually become part of Imperial somewhen in 1924 .

1st of April 1924.

I doubt that for BMANC as the shed at the Woolston Works was still very much in use for the Channel Island route of Imperial Airways in mid 1924 when the PoW visited. I would suspect that they transferred to the downstream site once this route fell into decline in the following years.
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The two photos on my Woolston page showing an aircraft moored of the downstream site both date from c1928/9 …so you may be correct. BMANC did eventually become part of Imperial somewhen in 1924 .

Sorry to go off topic but would any of you Supermarine sleuths know what this interwar petrol gauge came off ? From Australia.:very_drunk:

The writing on the gauge refers to Supermarine drawing 3090, which is the main tank for the Seagull (it does not specify which mark). Supermarine layout drawings for the Seagull III, which you guys were flying, say the main tank held 100gals, so I’m not sure what to make of that.

Edit…….well that was dumb of me, it was 100gal total and there were, of course, two tanks of 50gals each

The downstream slip was I believe ,the base for BMANC who operated from there for a time in the 20s..

I doubt that for BMANC as the shed at the Woolston Works was still very much in use for the Channel Island route of Imperial Airways in mid 1924 when the PoW visited. I would suspect that they transferred to the downstream site once this route fell into decline in the following years.
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