Supermarine Swift up for grabs…

RE: Supermarine Swift up for grab

Dave’s comments are certainly valid. Whilst the Swift would be lovely to see flying, it is phenomenally complex compared to a Hunter. The reheat system is complex and the PFCUs etc were groundbreaking, for their time. Spares support is a nightmare, ok the instruments are mostly common to other 50/60s aircraft (all except the surge gauge, but other parts are impossible. For example, the stick top is impossible to replace. The trimming controls are unique to type. Other specific type consumables would soon ground the aircraft at every opportunity making such an aircraft unappealing to airshow bookers. The operator would also need a Design Authority with a clear audit trail back to V-S.

The only real hope of flying her would be to fit alternatives wherever possible (new PFCUs, a more ‘standard’ ejection seat, hydraulics etc.) Each of these would need DA approval in the UK. If the rules in the US/South Africa are ‘easier’ that would give her the best chance to fly.

Sorry to be pessimistic, but that is the way it will most probably be.

By the way, if anyone has a Swift stick, my F7 nose is begging for one!

RE: Supermarine Swift

I don’t know how the CAA operate but i remember talking to Barry Pover when he got his 1st Lightning and was going to put it on the civil scene as G-LTNG,he told me there shouldn’t be a problem with the CAA as they have allowed the Gnat to fly and that was far more complex and had a very high accident rate when used in service whereas the Lightning 2-seaters had a virtually accident free service life,also the Lightning was alot easier to maintain than the Gnat as it is Lancaster technology.

RE: Supermarine Swift

The Draken is a completely different issue. Thsi machine was being operated by a quasi-military operation in the country of her former operator. As you have probably noticed she hasn’t been airworthy for a number of years now.
The afterburner question is one of the complexity and safety of the particular type of aircraft. How the CAA calculate this is the
accident rate per thousands of hours and indeed what happens when the engine stops i.e does it have a ram air turbine which can supply limited hydraulic function or does it have dual systems which allow
an element of redundancy .
I cannot comment on the standards to which the South African CAA
operate but it’s worthy bearing in mind that the is a vast amount of ‘free’ airspace in which you can operate these machines and also the weather tends to be more favourable than the U.K.
Regarding Mr Pover – Barry operated Hawker Hunter’s in the U.K for a number of years so I guess the decision to move to SA was his decision and not entirely related to the operation of military jets.
Most jet aircraft which operate in the U.K are flown for either public displays or for sydicate operation – the Swift could not realistically be operated in either of these categories in the U.K.
If the is no real interest in booking the superb Meteor F.8
for U.K airdisplays what chance would a Swift have? None.

RE: Supermarine Swift

I wonder if she won’t end up in sunny Cape Town. As for civilian operated ex-military jets operating in this country…..there is already a presedent. I remember the SHF Draken displaying at Biggin Hill some years back, and that certainley had reheat!! If the CAA were happy about a foreign registered aircraft in that category giving a public display, why not a British owned and operated one? That is something I’ve never fathomed out, no wonder Barry Pover upped and buggured of to SA.

RE: Supermarine Swift up for grab

I don’t think the CAA are totally intractable regarding afterburners – after all the OFMC at Duxford have-had a MIG-17 on the British register and I don’t think Mike Carlton would have acquired her in the first place if the CAA would not allow her on a permit to fly.
The main problem in most people’s eyes is who in the public knows what a Swift is and how many really care?
Hawker Hunter’s are available at realistic prices and have the option of two seats so if you want to tear around the countryside
at a fast rate of knots at least two people can enjoy the sound of that 600 gallons of fuel burning rather than one person in a Swift wondering about what happens when a PFCU goes wrong and the is no spares back up.
The comments regarding the CAA are not really bore out in reality – it’s lovely to say arn’t they terrible for not allowing
these aircraft to fly but the reality of it is that these aircraft make a nasty mess when they come down so they wisely try and keep them in the hands of responsible operators who appreciate the seriousness of what they are doing.

RE: Supermarine Swift up for grab

The biggest thing is, do you have the support of Bae. If so it can really help…

RE: Supermarine Swift up for grab

> I doubt that she would ever fly in this country as those
>w**** CAA people will not allow any aeroplane with reheat to
>fly in civil hands.

What about G-CVIX / XP924 ? I think all at DHA must be congratulated for proving to the CAA that certain ‘complex’ aircraft such as the Sea Vixen can be operated and maintained safely in civilian hands. I think also you have to look at XH558, to see that the CAA aren’t beyond persuasion. They just need to be convinced that the organisations operating such aircraft are able to do so safely and in conjunction with an approved design authority; although maybe this might be a stumbling block for the Swift?

RE: Supermarine Swift up for grab

This aircraft has been up for sale for a long time,she started at $275,000 and has been dropped to $200,000,yes thats dollars not pounds and include delivery anywhere in the world,she also comes with all the documentation and drawing that Supermarines did on the Swift F7.
I doubt that she would ever fly in this country as those w**** CAA people will not allow any aeroplane with reheat to fly in civil hands.
When on a visit to Bournemouth a few years ago she was there under restoration to fly,and the engineer i spoke to told me that the fuselage was ready for fitting out and they were waiting for the wings to return from being x-rayed,if this was successful then they were going to speed up restoration.
It’s a real shame as this would be a fantastic aeroplane to see fly,talking to Ray Hanna,he told me it was a nicer aeroplane to fly at low level than the Hunter,only being bettered by the Meteor F8.
Tim Manna what are you waiting for?