Supply of instruments, fittings etc for restorations

No he doesnt – AIRSAM is owned by Karel Bos; Guy does have his own stocks though.

Thanx for the correction. 🙂

Anyone up for joining me in whole sale Tornado spares? UK Surplus are auctioning of allsorts of items, costing next to nothing now but in 10/20 years ime will be priceless.

No he doesnt – AIRSAM is owned by Karel Bos; Guy does have his own stocks though.

Just remembered that in the late seventies / early eighties this was also brought up. Restorations (or overhauls as they were usually then) were also hampered by the lack of these parts. AIRSAM (former Methodical Engineers or Parker Aviation) at Bentfleet has a large warehouse but their prices are rather out of reach of most collectors. I know HFL get their spares from this source, am I right?

Cheers

Cees

Guy Black owns this stuff now

£100! jeez we had a load and let them go for a fiver each about a year ago…

rats 🙁

Just remembered that in the late seventies / early eighties this was also brought up. Restorations (or overhauls as they were usually then) were also hampered by the lack of these parts. AIRSAM (former Methodical Engineers or Parker Aviation) at Bentfleet has a large warehouse but their prices are rather out of reach of most collectors. I know HFL get their spares from this source, am I right?

Cheers

Cees

Good question.

Spiral of ‘collectability’ – Then someone makes a replica or finds a cache and the market price / collectability for that item comes back down again.

As we’ve seen in market forces in vintage aviation, the shape of what’s done will change. Back in the 50s, 60, 70s and 80s, what was a viable warbird project had a completely different set of parameters in each decade.

Despite their being less dataplates and less aircraft available (diminishing source) there are more warbirds restored and flyig today in private hands than in any of those previous decades. It’s not a fast growth, it’s presumably going to stabilize, but I don’t think it’s a doomsday scenario, nor likely to become one.

What was ‘an impossible type to operate in civil hands’ or ‘impossible to make new’ 20 years apart are very different lists.

I believe this is a really serious issue for restorers and the previous post comment on collectors touches on an aspect of this whole business which I find very serious but for which I have no answer.

Being down here in NZ I wonder what people in other places have to say on this issue.

Let’s say I’m a collector (and I admit some of this is a bit of generalisation so forgive me but it is based on observation over time) I tend to collect the items that express action. So I go for how high, how fast, and the like so altimeters, rev counters, asi’s etc are my thing.

Equally I tend to buy them to put on a shelf and so I’m only going to buy a few. So I’m prepared to go to a reasonably highish level of cost as I’m not doing it every week so I go to say $NZ120 or so per instrument I’ll buy.

Now if I’m a restorer, as I am with a volunteer society, I have to find a complete set of specific insturments for a given aircraft. In my case I’m hunting down the 45 or so for a Lockheed Hudson so straight line maths says I need to spend of the order of $NZ6000 for the aircraft set.

So what is happening now is the collectors are driving up the price (especially if you end up in auction situations) but also to a degree taking the items out of circulation as it were. Equally people see a market for items of a certain type so they offer them up but what happens to the others (eg who can do me a Cambridge fuel ratiometer as opposed to the much easier to find turn and slip)?

I wonder what people think of this topic? I’m not for one minute denying the collectors their right to their hobby but I wonder about the greater good for the world and the museum aspect of it all.

Thoughts greatfully appreciated (offers of instruments and other gear even more so!).

Unfortunately it is more or less impossible to sort out the needy from the collectors. I once let a youngster have a Spitfire spade grip for peanuts…saw it on a sale stall a month later….folk will try and get as much for items as they can….pity really. Having said that, many times I have been given items for my projects because people know I am genuine.

Myself and a couple of other Lancaster group volunteers have chewed over this before. Ebay used to be a good site to pick necessary spares for our projects but lately the collectors are pushing the prices above and beyond the non profit groups. There are still good deals on parts out there though, you just have to be in the right place at the right time.

I believe this is a really serious issue for restorers and the previous post comment on collectors touches on an aspect of this whole business which I find very serious but for which I have no answer.

Being down here in NZ I wonder what people in other places have to say on this issue.

Let’s say I’m a collector (and I admit some of this is a bit of generalisation so forgive me but it is based on observation over time) I tend to collect the items that express action. So I go for how high, how fast, and the like so altimeters, rev counters, asi’s etc are my thing.

Equally I tend to buy them to put on a shelf and so I’m only going to buy a few. So I’m prepared to go to a reasonably highish level of cost as I’m not doing it every week so I go to say $NZ120 or so per instrument I’ll buy.

Now if I’m a restorer, as I am with a volunteer society, I have to find a complete set of specific insturments for a given aircraft. In my case I’m hunting down the 45 or so for a Lockheed Hudson so straight line maths says I need to spend of the order of $NZ6000 for the aircraft set.

So what is happening now is the collectors are driving up the price (especially if you end up in auction situations) but also to a degree taking the items out of circulation as it were. Equally people see a market for items of a certain type so they offer them up but what happens to the others (eg who can do me a Cambridge fuel ratiometer as opposed to the much easier to find turn and slip)?

I wonder what people think of this topic? I’m not for one minute denying the collectors their right to their hobby but I wonder about the greater good for the world and the museum aspect of it all.

Thoughts greatfully appreciated (offers of instruments and other gear even more so!).

Alan

You need to be on my list of people to be nice to!

Bruce

I agree with Bruce, it’s certainly getting harder to find good quality, wartime stuff.

I remember, not that many years ago, having cleared out a store. I had piled 37 Turn and Slip Indicators, all boxed, on the boot lid of my car and was ready to start bargaining with the vendor.

My mate was a bit anxious about the final cost and I recall him saying

“Is there really a market for all these?”

The final cost was actually about 50 pence each…and I wish I still had a few of them!

I don’t recall seeing a thread about Shoreham aerojumble last weekend. It was very quiet, fewer traders and visitors than in past years. And very little wartime hardware to be seen. I guess a lot of the old, familiar traders just can’t find enough gear to make a trip to Shoreham worthwhile any more.

Pity!

Cees,

We’re already there! It is getting increasingly difficult to find this stuff. Ten years ago, I could buy Turn and slips for a fiver from Arco at the autumn airshow at Duxford. Try finding them for less than £100 now. Restorers have to work in the same circles as collectors now to get the more difficult parts such as Stick tops, early instruments, early gunsights and so on. Prices are spiralling!

It has been common practice for some time to adapt post war parts to fit, and you should remember that many items that can be found on such as the Vampire, which was in service in Switzerland until the eighties were identical to parts used on Spitfires in the forties.

The situation wont get any better!

Bruce